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submitted 4 months ago by Emperor@feddit.uk to c/star_wars@lemmy.world

Can it really be that there are Star Wars fans who see George Lucas’s Episode I – The Phantom Menace, once considered the emblem of everything that went wrong with the long-running space saga, as a bona fide classic ripe for rehabilitation 25 years on? As the much-derided 1999 film returns to cinemas this weekend, there are rumblings in the ether that millennials, and perhaps those even younger, are completely unaware of just how much of a disaster it was. Then again, perhaps those of us who remember its debut in cinemas should be prepared to listen to voices from a new generation. Was it really so bad after all?

Part of the problem is that where it was once a rare blot on the galactic landscape, a Star Wars movie that failed to live up to the glories of the original trilogy, these days it’s far, far away from being the only rubbish film in the canon. In fact, it could be argued that when considering movies such as the execrable The Rise of Skywalker, the middling Solo: A Star Wars Story and the two painful prequel follow-ups, The Phantom Menace is closer to the mean average for the saga than it is to the bottom of the Dagobah swamp.

Where once we were shocked that something so tonally misguided, blithely racist and prosaically bloodless could be tagged with the famous title, we now have the Star Wars Holiday Special to remind us that it can get worse. Back at the turn of the century, few of us were aware that 70s and 80s misfires like this even existed – see also Caravan of Courage: An Ewok Adventure and Ewoks: The Battle for Endor – it being the pre YouTube era when all but the most studious of geeks were blissfully ignorant of them.

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[-] wjrii@lemmy.world 37 points 4 months ago

You know why Qui-Gon is the only Star Wars character to stay dead from a gut-stab?

Man was exhausted from carrying the entire film.

Liam Neeson single handedly makes TPM more watchable than either AOTC or ROTS.

[-] Deconceptualist@lemm.ee 21 points 4 months ago

Just watched it. This is almost correct. The other thing carrying it is the soundtrack of course.

[-] TheRealKuni@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

KORAH MATAH!
KORAH RAHTAMAH!

(I just got done performing this piece in three concerts in 26 hours, between May 3rd and 4th. 😅)

[-] slazer2au@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

Because he didn't fully go force ghost. There are some parts of the clone wars show he voiced over and did manage to appear in force strong locations.

[-] bitwaba@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

I think Phantom Menace is the best of the 3, but the thing I always find surprising when watching the other two is how freaking engaged I am when Obi-wan is on screen. Seriously, Ewan McGregor so freaking good that I'm just whisked away on whatever exploration of this foreign universe he's doing. Then Anakin speaks and rips me right back to reality.

If Liam Neeson carries TPM, Ewan McGregor should be crowned Mr. Universe for carrying AOTC and ROTS

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 20 points 4 months ago

Still terrible? Well . . . yeah.

[-] altima_neo@lemmy.zip 17 points 4 months ago

I mean it was never good. The writing is childish and basic. While the action and effects are cool, they really needed some better writing and less cheese.

[-] gusgalarnyk@lemmy.world 17 points 4 months ago

Honestly I grew up on 1 and I was just coming of age to watch 2 and 3 as they released. I love 1 to this day. I like the politics, I like the worlds, I like the Jedi and the droids and the soundtrack.

Little of the dialogue sticks out like a thorn to me, and although jar jar and some of the more comedic choices are a bit out of place for me they seem consistent and within the world (jar jar coming off as an idiot from his culture).

Idk. I get when boomers tell me they hate it but comparing it to Disney star wars and I still place it above most SW films.

[-] meanmon13@lemmy.zip 9 points 4 months ago

This is how I am as well, I think there are dozens of us who feel this way but most of us are closeted because it's so popular to hate on Episode 1.

[-] jacksilver@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

It's part of the reason why the sequel series lands so flat for me. The prequel trilogy expanded the galaxy of star wars in so many interesting ways. New worlds, species, technology, etc. The Sequels really don't add anything from a world building perspective, they actually make the galaxy feel even smaller.

[-] gusgalarnyk@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Lol I've always imagined the loudest haters are people who grew up with the EU and we're disappointed when GL took it a different way. And then their kids probably inherited those beliefs but not necessarily because they formed them themselves.

Most people I talk to IRL who love star wars love all 6 films plus RO. Love I guess is a strong word. Like - love. The prequels have too much swagger, too many banger scores, too many stunning visuals and concepts and characters to not love em. And sure the CW TV series really helps some character arcs, but that just goes to show how solid of a base there was.

I admit they have flaws. 2 always has such a down turn of energy for me, but it is what it is. Top 7 star wars films for sure lol.

[-] rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Same here, I was 9 when episode 1 dropped and I grew up with the prequels. I loved them, used my pocket money for the merchandise and video games. Even my father who grew up with the OT loved them just because he saw how much joy they gave me. I only learned later on the internet, that you were supposed to hate them. I don't care, I rewatch them annually and will soon show them to my kids.

[-] UKFilmNerd@feddit.uk 14 points 4 months ago

Having a huge love for the original trilogy, could a new film possibly have any chance with the hype that came before it.

Short answer, no.

I rewatched the prequel trilogy a few years ago, hadn't watched them for over a decade. In my opinion, Phantom Menace actually comes out best of the three. Possibly because there's a lot of practical work and the following films were pushing a lot of early digital and it hasn't held up well.

[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 7 points 4 months ago

I think 1 spent a lot of time world building. It makes sense since it was the "first" film, and I think that's it's largest issue. It's slow compared to the other films, and in a time where everyone wanted action that's bad. Modern media is much more in favor of spending time on world building.

That said, Jar Jar is horrible. He singlehandedly makes me think this opinion might be wrong and they're just bad. I don't know how the hell they let him happen, but every moment with him on screen is painful.

[-] wosat@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago

They should re-make Episodes 1-3 and do what they should have done the first time -- reveal Jar Jar as a Sith Lord at the end of the trilogy.

[-] Emperor@feddit.uk 7 points 4 months ago

Just tag 5 minutes on the end where Darth Jar Jar reveals his plan (how Palpatine was his apprentice all along) then have him fight Kelleran Beq.

[-] Emperor@feddit.uk 10 points 4 months ago

The Phantom Menace is closer to the mean average for the saga than it is to the bottom of the Dagobah swamp.

It's the eighth or ninth best Star Wars film, which, I suppose, does put it in the middle and it has some great scenes but it's really only buoyed up by some stinkers

[-] ccunning@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

What movies are you including to get 8th or 9th to the middle of the pack?

Anything beyond the 9 Skywalker Saga movies and 2 Anthology movies seems like it would be pushing it.

[-] Emperor@feddit.uk 6 points 4 months ago

Holiday Special and the Ewok movies, as mentioned in thr excerpt. I was feeling generous because of the day.

[-] Ballistic_86@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

Yeah, still bad. The difference now is that basically 90% of the lines in the prequel movies have been turned into memes.

[-] BruceTwarzen@kbin.social 7 points 4 months ago

No, shit movies somehow magically get better if you wait.

[-] AlexisFR@jlai.lu 6 points 4 months ago

The prequels revived the franchise while the Disney movies nearly killed it. So it can always be worse.

[-] viking@infosec.pub 4 points 4 months ago

It's ripe for a remake maybe. Without the lizard clown and the whole podracing quest line, it made for an alright short film that could be extended to a feature length movie.

[-] TheRealKuni@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Podracing is fucking awesome, a beautiful homage to old-school Formula 1, and I will fight anyone who doesn’t like it. 😉

[-] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago

Right?? Was some of the only good shit in that movie

[-] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 3 points 4 months ago
[-] Blaze@reddthat.com 2 points 4 months ago

12 hours. Is it worth it? I started it, seems interesting, but I'll probably watch it over the next few days

[-] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 2 points 4 months ago

I watched it over the course of a couple days and thought it was very good. If you're into Star Wars nerdery, he goes for some deep cuts.

[-] harrys_balzac@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 months ago

Terrible? Yes. The worst Star Wars movie? Very debatable. Especially if they had bothered to make Episodes 8 and 9.

[-] Artyom@lemm.ee 3 points 4 months ago

I always watch The Cloak of Deception instead. Not sure if I'll ever go back to the original.

[-] wagnerst@feddit.de 3 points 4 months ago

I also was disappointed back when it came out. Yet, the prequels are great in world building. And I like that they do their own thing, not just copy the original trilogy. It would probably have been much better with a writer and director not being Lucas himself.

[-] Clack@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago

Read the Darth Plagueis novel. It isn't technically canon, but it makes TPM tolerable as it was written after the fact.

[-] Peppycito@sh.itjust.works 0 points 4 months ago

as it was written after the fact.

Like most of the plot of the franchise.

[-] Zahille7@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago

It all just comes down to which ones you watched first. I, like others here, watched the prequels first so I love them. All the old heads here can bitch and moan all they want about how the prequels are horrible or how they kickstarted the dark path that is now Disney Star Wars, but I'll tell them to shut their mouths. The prequels are fine, yes they're full of cheese, but they're also full of heart and world building. You can still enjoy something while acknowledging that it has flaws.

Take the old argument of Star Trek vs. Star Wars, I prefer Star Wars even with its flaws and shortcomings.

this post was submitted on 04 May 2024
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