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Special military operation
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2024
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I admit, I thought I was in a different thread.
Lebanese have the right to defend themselves, and Palestinians.
The iron dome is defense. Actively bombing outside of ones borders, in my opinion, is fucked up, no matter what "side." It's like all these country's leaders are acting off PTSD responses and escalating more and more, no one attempting to deescalate. Idk what the answer is, honestly.
My ridiculous attempt to make light of the situation is to childishly wish Mr. Rogers were still alive to help us all get through this.
No, actually, occupiers have no right to defend themselves.
I agree on the premise that occupation is not a defensive strategy. The degree to how fucked up it is in comparison to actively bombing depends. The food, water, and informative (shutting down access to Internet) blockades are horrific, on par with bombing imo. The casualties in Gaza are inexcusable.
Trust me, we have common grounds of disgust here. I don't believe we can expect to see a path toward peace if we can't demonstrate healthy conflict management ourselves, though. Israel has been established and deserves self determination without constant threat of external anhilitation as much as any of their neighboring countries. Palestine needs to be formally recognized, as well.
Even if it is. If their defense requires them to turn another people into second class citizens in their own lands, then fuck them.
you know, bomber Harris famously said: "The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation."
but to the IDF? this is no mere delusion, they do have a guarantee that they won't be bombed, because they have the iron dome, they can do what they want.
so I'll pass on the notion that iron dome being "defensive" somehow stops its existence from emboldening the vile actions of the literal terrorist Regime that is the current Israeli government (yes, several top ministers of the Israeli government are internationally wanted terrorists, only taken off said lists because they became part of an official government)
the iron dome is literally not a guarantee that you can't be bombed, i think the iron dome has had a 90% effectiveness thus far, but don't quote me on it.
And besides, if you destroy the anti air, like we did in operation sandstorm, you can't exactly stop it.
Or better yet, pull a hopeless diamond and simply fly stealth bombers over. (assuming that works of course)
if you want to argue that they don't have these capabilities, sure, that's literally how asymmetrical warfare works though.
I think you didn't get it, the Israeli population lives in relative safety as they commit genocide, and they support the government that is committing the genocide
no i think i get it. I was talking about anti air defense, and you were talking about how it's "a guarantee" which is, statistically not true. And never will be. If you would like me to directly quote it at you i can.
Maybe i'm being a bit pedantic here, but i think it's fair given the fact that you guys refuse to use any word other than genocide, or talk about like, most actual war-crimes being committed, and instead just say genocide, which while rather amusing, means almost nothing.
The iron dome didn't protect them on October 7th. It didn't protect them completely today. I have friends that grew up there with the reality of seeking out bomb shelters constantly. Without, they'd be glassed by now. I agree they probably feel emboldened, but not without good reason. Should we compare surrounding regimes on the amount of internationally recognized terrorists in positions of dictatorship? At least Israeli citizens have some level of recourse if they're dissatisfied. I think all individuals deserve the same level of self determination, along with Palestinians, Iranians, etc.
I know there's nuance in how Israel and the US have played roles actively discouraging or even overthrowing democratic regimes, but I want to be careful not to take accountability away from each individual that has contributed to the suffering of innocent people. Abuse always has precursors.
so what are a few dead Jews to the fascist government of Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir? you need to break a few eggs to make an omelet, after all, but the iron dome works well enough, it protects them from the majority of reprisal as they commit "genocide within genocide", and that's what matters. Fact is, this fascist government was voted in by the people and still enjoys a lot of support for their strongman murder and oppression of the peoples not of god's chosen Master Race.
i like how the entire argumentative basis of this comment relies upon two words, genocide, and fascism.