this post was submitted on 30 Apr 2025
818 points (96.6% liked)
YUROP
2334 readers
30 users here now
A laid back community for good news, pictures and general discussions among people living in Europe.
Topics that should not be discussed here:
- European news: !europe@feddit.org
- European politics: !europepolitics@feddit.org
- Ukraine war: !ukraine@sopuli.xyz
Other European communities
Other casual communities:
Language communities
Cities
Countries
- !albania@lemmy.world
- !austria@feddit.org
- !belgique@jlai.lu
- !belgium@lemmy.world
- !croatia@lemmy.world
- https://feddit.dk/
- !deutschland@feddit.org / !germany@feddit.org
- !eesti@lemm.ee
- https://lemmy.eus/
- !finland@sopuli.xyz
- !france@jlai.lu
- https://foros.fediverso.gal/
- !greece@lemmy.world
- !hungary@lemmy.world
- Italy: !news@feddit.it
- !ireland@lemmy.world
- !northern_ireland@feddit.uk
- !norway@sopuli.xyz
- !thenetherlands@feddit.nl
- Poland: !wiadomosci@szmer.info
- !portugal@lemmy.pt
- !romania@feddit.ro
- !suisse@lemmy.world
- !sweden@lemmy.world
- !ukraine@sopuli.xyz
- !unitedkingdom@feddit.uk
- !wales@lemm.ee
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Power corrupts. No single country should be a global superpower
That's fine, Europe is several countries.
It's a thin line indeed. Aren't the countries in the UK closer to being actual countries than the US states?
Not really. All American States have the same level of inherent sovereignty. There are also a lot of federal programs that rely the individual states performing the work. States also maintain their own militaries under partial or complete state control.
In contrast, UK country sovereignty is a mixed bag, with the largest country in the UK without any devolved powers.
The US generally views American state sovereignty more in line with EU country sovereignty.
You cannot compare the US' setup to Europe's. One is a nation that is still incredibly young and was sliced up like a cake for several territories that still are relatively homogenous in culture.
The other is a continent consisting of countries with very diverse cultures and thousands of years of history, who made a union to collaborate on certain political issues.
The two are not even close to being the same. Not even close.
The line is when all the countries agree to become one big country. Which will never happen in Europe. The US is different as it never got to be a bunch of individual countries with centuries long history (if we ignore the native americans' old territories) before becoming the US. That development happened simultaneously while the country and its rules were formed. The concept of country was already well known at the time too, while Europe, like most of the world, figured that shit out slowly and over centuries.
This is why Europe will never become one country. The history is too ancient and the cultures run too deep. There is no way that I as a Dane would agree to become a citizen of United Europe where I lose my identity and history as a Dane and now have to build some new identity with other Europeans. We have many things in common, but we are not the same. The Soviet Union already experimented with this stuff, and it didn't work out because the countries it forced to become part of a unified nation with the same identity, didn't agree to it. It was forced and it was damaging to these countries' identities.
I do not know a single European who would want to become one country and none of us would agree that the European Union's setup is in any way similar to the US. It is not the same.
Respectfully, I disagree with your reasoning. At no point have I said European countries want nothing to do with one another, just that we want to keep our own identity and sovereignty.
You are making a bunch of assumptions while completely ignoring the fact that European countries have the EU.
We are not isolationist nor are we xenophobic. We just want to keep our countries as they are.
It's kinda like accusing someone of being anti apartment complex if they say no to move out of their family home that they have lived in for generations, and get an apartment in the complex instead. "Oh, maybe you're racist because there might be people of different ethnicities in the complex? Or maybe you just hate having neighbours and want to isolate yourself from everybody in your silly little house?"
Or maybe I just have a greater emotional attachment to the house that was built by my great grandfather and I feel more at home in the house I have upkept and renovated myself than some apartment complex where every apartment has the same layout and there are rules as to how much I can modify mine.
Doesn't mean that apartment complexes are a bad thing. Not at all. But if you already have a house with a garden that is yours and that you have a history with, why on earth would you want to give that up for an apartment in a complex that you don't have any attachment to?
The only reason something like the US has worked out is because people willingly agreed to the setup and willingly left their old countries to build up something new.
Had the native Americans had the means to defend their lands, then I'm sure there would have been no US and instead a continent with old, independent countries that would hold on to their own traditions and cultures. There may have been a union similar to the EU, but that is not the same as them agreeing to become one big country. That is just collaboration and trying to have some agreements in place that ensures peace and trade between nations. The exact opposite of isolationism and xenophobia.
On the contrary, periods of imperial hegemony have been some of the more stable and peaceful episodes of human history. One of them is ending right now.
Yeah. People like to complain about American warmongering, but the period between World Wars I and II was orders of magnitude more deadly.
The stability isn't much consolation to the slaves who die under empires
That's fair. But history is an uninterrupted succession of empires. Good ones, bad ones, middling ones. It's the human condition. The USA was an empire founded by enlightenment libertarians, so I'd say there's a fair chance we're going to look back on it fondly. Similarly, the EU, if ever it could pull itself together, has the potential to be as good an empire as we'll ever get. IMO.
The USA was founded by slave owners and for a good chunk of its history anyone other than white male landowners were second-class citizens (and de facto still are). There are no good empires.
The human condition is malleable. A better world is possible. Indeed, sometimes it peaks out from the raging waters. Paradises built in hell, like Barcelona during the Civil War, prosper for a time and flounder. To believe that we cannot make something beautiful is to lack imagination.
The only way to enforce that, is to be a global superpower