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Russians accused of carving swastikas on captured Ukrainians
(www.firstpost.com)
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this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2023
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Not a fair comparison. The Ukrainian military is actively moving civilians out of combat areas and not choosing to wage guerilla war from densely populated urban centers.
This exactly. One can absolutely debate the methods of IDF, but literally no one could wage war in Gaza with few civilian casualties. Gaza is almost one huge city while Ukraine have massive rural areas around every city. Had Russia waged war in Gaza, they'd have killed at least as many civilians, and in my opinion probably a lot more as well.
Maybe don't wage war in Gaza then? It is not truly needed, there are ways to combat terrorism without leveling a city. And let's not forget Netanyahu funded Hamas because they benefit of the war.
This is not the point. The point is that comparing civilian casualties between a war in Gaza and a war in Ukraine is an apples and pears comparison.
You know, apples and pears are both very closely related fruits that serve very similar culinary functions. Comparing the two is a perfectly valid thing to do.
So you think Israel is justified in killing more civilians in 2 months than Russia has killed in 2 years?
This thread is about Russia. I was not the one bringing Israel up.
But no, I don't think that is a good thing. But it has nothing to do with Israel being "more evil" than Russia. Russia cares zero about civilians and would have killed at least as many had Ukraine been a mostly urban warzone with Russian air superiority. But Ukraine isn't, so therefore less civilian deaths.
Out of curiosity, what would have been your recommended response to the 7 October attack? I'm not saying Israel is handling this the right way whatsoever, but I see a lot of people make statements like yours without any specifics.
Leave Israel. They're surrounded by enemies and the only way there will be peace is if one side genocides the other.
They never should have been there. They are only there because of the religious nationalist movement known as Zionism.
Nobody is entitled to live anywhere because of their religion.
The world would be a better, more peaceful place if Israelis just relocated to the USA.
So why not move Palestinians if migration is your solution to this problem? Both, Jews and Arabs, have lived in this area for thousands of years.
Because Israel will still be "surrounded by enemies and the only way there will be peace is if one side genocides the other."
It's not about having few civilian casualties, it's about having fewER casualties. Gaza is extremely densely populated and civilian casualties are pretty much unavoidable, but it doesn't mean you have to level entire city blocks or bomb the exact places you tell civilians to go. There's plenty Isreal could do to reduce casualties, they simply won't.
Again, one can absolutely discuss the methods of the IDF. The point here is simply that you can't compare Gaza with Ukraine when it comes to civilian casualties.
You can't compare the actual numbers but you can compare the actions sides take to prevent casualties. Your comment came across as "there's nothing IDF could do to reduce casualties" when the reality is that they could and they just don't.
"Came across"? Right. Then I could say bringing up an unrelated conflict, no matter how terrible, in a discussion about what Russia does comes across as a putinist move.
Sure. The other guy is also an ass for bringing up an unrelated topic, and if you had originally said what you just said we wouldn't be having this discussion. But you chose to continue that unrelated discussion in a way that I've taken as defense of IDF actions. So maybe address what I said instead of deflecting.
Fair enough.
It was never my intention to come across as defensive towards the IDF. I simply wanted to point out why it doesn't make sense to compare civilian casualties between the two conflicts. Me saying a war in Gaza would always result in a lot of civilian casualties didn't mean Israel has done a good job. I'm very sure they could have had quite a lot lower casualties with better tactics, but it would probably still result in high civilian casualties. A war in an area like Gaza will always result in hell on earth.
Meanwhile Russia has every possibility to avoid cities, yet they are still bombing cities pretty much daily despite there being no military activity there. This is again not me defending the IDF. I'm just trying to keep the topic on topic.
You absolutely can and I will.
Try to say the numbers don't matter is just willful ignorance.
Do you think Israel is justified in killing more civilians in 2 months than Russia has killed in 2 years?
You're right. Israel is justified in killing more civilians than Russia.
My bad.