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this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2023
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I mentioned EVs aren't the savior that people are pitching because they still require plastics and rare earth metals and often are fueled by electricity made with coal/oil.
They got so fucking mad lol
That has more to do with you regurgitating misinformation, than it does with the Chinese.
Those arguments have been debunked ad nauseam.
It literally isn't misinformation though? EVs are still polluting. There is no world with cars and buildings without pollution my guy especially now where we are at with technology.
Nothing has been debunked?
This debate is clearly one of different goalposts.
Electric car fans will fairly notice that electric cars are less bad than traditional ICE cars, and therefore the technology is good
Anti-car folks will also rightfully point out that there's too much focus on EVs at the time when we should move away from cars altogether, and that electric car future is also very unsustainable, just a little bit less, while giving the false impression of something "green"
We should certainly establish the same definition of "green", as it is so wide it encompasses both of our positions.
I claim that most people expect EVs to be the solution for eco-friendly transportation that is sustainable and future-proof. And this is not true. That's what I meant.
It's important to clear out why it is unrealistic in order to address it. I see two reasons: 1.Governments not doing enough to promote and build effective public transit 2.People not willing to lose comfort of driving their own car - something that insulates them from other people and allows to move anywhere anytime.
And both are solvable through policy changes. First, we desperately need to invest in public transit. We can get money by taxing car sales more, which will shift both sides of the equation by making cars less affordable, while at the same time freeing up money for public transit development (of course, less sales of cars should be factored in). We need more routes, more comfortable conditions for passengers, more relatively low-scale options to drive passengers to less popular destinations. We also need to subsidize taxi and car rentals for cases when someone actually needs a car.
But those are the solutions that might get negative reaction of the public at first, and this tension is to me the most problematic (of course after lobbying made by automakers). Populist leaders will never go for that step, or they risk losing their popularity and influence.
Lmfao no I get the point you literally named what I'm saying and gloss over it and this is why this situation we are under is inevitable
For the energy source aspect, it's much more efficient to have a single big place to generate electricity compared to having millions of portable combustion engines running around inside cars. It's also easier to switch to a cleaner energy if a wind farm or a solar power plant if you're a state or some entity that's responsible for energy generation in your region.
TBH my biggest pet peeve on an EV is basically every EV is a privacy sucking machine. They record everything and send everything home. Give me a car like my old car that doesn't have any telemetry and the technology is simple enough I can even push start the car when the alternator is fully dead.
While it is true that a centralized energy source is more efficient and clean it still isn't enough. Even if every car was replaced by an EV it wouldn't solve our climate crisis. The only thing it would save is the automobile industry.
Here's so info
And more
Nobody, and I do literally mean nobody, has ever said that BEVs would single-handedly solve climate change.
Congratulations on knocking down the strawman you have created.
No you aren't.
https://kbin.social/m/worldnews@lemmy.ml/t/725646/-/comment/4317491
https://lemmy.world/comment/6271064
https://kbin.social/m/worldnews@lemmy.ml/t/725646/-/comment/4317491
ok
None of those comments say what you're alleging they say lmao, they're saying what I just said
HAHAHAHAHA fuck me. What an own goal.
Which ones oth these say that electric cars will single-handedly halt climate change? I'm waiting.
i think the only thing deft is deft at is the dunning Kruger effect.
Lol what the fuck are you dumb?
https://lemmy.world/comment/6270768
Read between the lines. This kid is telling me in 12 months diesel will be gone by EVs and then nothing, just that's it. Guess that's the final solution.
Another tells me I have no hope. There is no hope the car industry and infrastructure is bad overall entirely.
They're basically arguing once we get EVs car pollution is solved and checked so we can move on. And that's just not true.
No they aren't. Stop making stuff up.
Okay strawman boy whatever you say
Point me to where these people are saying BEVs will single-handedly end climate change, like you alleged.
Cute strawman. Nobody is going to say those exact words this isn't a magic spell and without those words I'm wrong you fuckin idiot.
The only thing EVs do is prolong a car industry. These dopes genuinely believe EVs are the car solution. Don't be stupid
You're being stupid.
The reason why you can't find anybody saying that is because literally nobody thinks it. You were lying when you said people were telling you that. Then you doubled down on the lie.
Moral of the story, don't tell lies, it makes you look like an idiot.
Literally straw man lol fuck out of here with your obtuse bullshit
Zero strawmans from me.
You're the one who said people were saying EVs would single-handedly solve climate change. All I did was refute your strawman bullshit.
Now you're just doing a playground style "...no you are!!!" because you can't come up with anything to defend yourself. Embarrassing.
BEVs are happening and they're better. Cry more.
You're an idiot. You set a make believe easily defensible position, they have to say those exact words or no.
I'm telling you the push back against EVs being bad shows people do not understand this is just a continuation of the same industry that really pushed us here. EVs are not the solution and showed you examples of people being mad at me for saying that.
You're literally brain rotted lmfao you don't know anything you're saying
I never said they have to say those exact words, that's just another strawman you've concocted.
I'm telling you to show me where people have said EVs are a solution to climate change.
I'm still waiting. Maybe you'll show me these comments that totally definitely exist after you're done throwing your toys out of the pram? Oh wait you won't because nobody has ever said it.
Moron.
But they are being marketed as a very sustainable and ecologically friendly method of transportation which they very much are not. There's no straw man there I just used a hypothetical to accentuate the meaninglessness of "more sustainable" forms of overconsumption. Cars are an incredibly wasteful and absurd form of daily transportation; especially in mass. The fight against climate change will directly affect your life and you will have to change aspects of your life for the benefit of the world as a whole. We cannot continue our path of overconsumption and overproduction and expect it to just work out or become sustainable in the future somehow. If the solution is being sold it isn't the solution
Obviously, I'm aware that no one believes EVs will single handedly solve climate change. I'm not stupid and I don't think you are either
You've just knocked down strawman yourself.
The point made by commenter is not that cars are the only source of climate change, but that EV industry is in itself heavily polluting and unsustainable. While it is true that it is a little less heavy on the environment than an ICE car (assuming you drive it regularly, because building an EV is less environmentally friendly, actually), it is still an incredibly environmentally unfriendly solution.
Manufacturing is super polluting and expends very limited resources in huge quantities. Energy sources are normally NOT green, and even if they are, they are not harmless, too. Tyres are still a giant problem. Parking lots require a lot of urban spaces, which leads to stretching cities and exacerbating problems with all transportation, as well as leading to deforestation on the outskirts and ramped up asphalt production. More roads are required, meaning again, more intervention in natural ecosystems, extreme amounts of resources and pollution.
There is simply no way you can drive a 2-ton car to move ~70kg human around with it making any ecological sense, while many people pretend that EV's are here to save us. No, sorry, they are not; you'll have to change your habits if you want to keep Earth habitable. Period.
These are not conservative talking points that's so disingenuous dude.
EVs require metals that aren't really too great to mine for our planet, most of the time that mining requires the use of diesel despite what we wanna believe.
I'm all for green energy and better awareness of our species pollution but you're basically being duped by Elon Musk wannabes promising the future that will turn out just like everything Elon does, absolutely trash and we're gonna wonder why we wasted time with half of this shit.
The real solution is cars gotta go, public transit needs to be the only transit and parking lots and roads gotta go but the car industry and the infrastructure we invested in is too worth it so we will follow the sunk cost off the cliff and people like you will support it because its slightly better than it used to be even though it is still bad.
So? Don't police my tone. Argue the content. Nobody here has done that. They're just mad I'm pointing out EVs are kind of trash and a bad idea because they're prolonging a serious problem. This isn't an opinion, this is the truth.
We have limited resources, the end is actually in sight this time. Throughout all of human history we are crying the end is nigh, guess what? The end is actually nigh we should act like it. Not police people's tones and get pissy they're not saying it the way we wanna hear it
Next can you talk about the problem with renewables? Just to come full circle
That's quite the conclusion jump. You can be critical of EVs from a leftist perspective even if so much EV hate is from conservatives.
EVs are an improvement from petrol powered vehicles but they are not in any way good. There is still plenty of pollution from the construction of the vehicle, the transport of materials, the atomized rubber from the tires, and the pollution from it's energy source (even if it's less total greenhouse gas emissions as opposed to a petrol based vehicle). EVs will not save the climate even if every car was replaced.
Here's more info
And some more
Nothing is wrong with renewables but you've definitely also read about greenwashing right?
It is basically that. For what people are proposing we need to change the entire economic system away from capitalism and this endless green line go up logic. Until then everything will continue to be this way no matter how we dress it.
Yeah, don't try to make anything better. It's a waste of time unless you're trying to overhaul the entire economic system.
What a smooth-brained take.
The point is that the rise of electic cars slows down the kinds of fundamental shifts and, most importantly, policy changes we need in order to actually get sustainable.
While it can be seen as an improvement, at the end of the day we end up not taking measures we absolutely should. Everyone is just advertising EV's as a solution, which they are not. At best, it's a transient stage before people can finally accept they cannot drive a car in an environmentally friendly way, ever.
The only thing EVs save are the automobile industry.
Literally makes nothing better prolongs the same problems
Lemmy.ml got mad about EV hate?? I generally see pretty well informed pro urbanism/public transport takes on there so I'm surprised. Maybe I'm just more used to hexbear