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this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2024
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Of course they say that - the hostages trapped in Gaza are Israelis and not Americans. Were they Americans then Gaza would have ceased to exist last year.
FWIW several of the hostages taken by Hamas were Americans.
True, Gaza randomly captured a colorful selection of people they could get their hands on without any care of where they are actually from. Anyone from the other side of the border is a valid slave to them.
No it just so happens that a lot of the settlers over there have dual citizenship because they're not actually from there, or their parents weren't.
It's crazy how many Zionists from New York recently moved to israel such as this the famous Yakub
Hmm... This reminds me of a country that kept a strip of people under a blockade, while calculating the calories they need to stay just above starvation level, and then gave permits to the people of the stripe to work like slaves for them.
Anyways the hostages aren't slaves there. They're bargaining chips, and it seems like one side of this conflict doesn't value them.
Well, that strip of of land is not occupied since 2005, which hasn't prevented Hamas and the "innocent people of Gaza" from throwing more than 8,000 rockets into civilian towns, while also trying to build tunnels under the border. What would you expect Israel to do? Open the border and just let them in? You're delusional, ill-informed or you just want Israel gone, in which case you call for a actual genocide.
Oh, btw, did you know Gaza also borders with Egypt? Ever asked yourself why the Egyptians never opened their borders to their fellow Muslim brothers even though a large percentage of the Gaza population descended from Egyption migrants to the region?
Also, why wasn't there any calls for a Palestinian state between 1948-1967?
Israel left Gaza in 2005, one year later Hamas took over and killed its political opponents, this was followed by an unprovoked daily barrages of missiles towards civilian towns. I don't know where your claim of Hamas was acting out of charity comes from, and obviously the schools mosques and other charitable activity was all a front for their terrorist activities.
What do you think should have been the answer to that problem? I think cutting off weapons supply routes is a reasonable course of action. Regarding water, communication and electricity independence - those problems could have been at least partially solved with the billions in aid money that were instead used for terror infrastructure under civilian homes.
Gaza was supposed to be an example of how a Palestinian state could eventually look like, but they f***ed up, badly.
"From the river to the sea" style? Your true colors are showing
You didn't actually read the link you sent, did you? this initiative was a failure, with no real takers from the Arab states. Jordan basically ignored it by annexing the West bank immediately, and Egypt would rather use Gaza to generate more problems for the new Israeli state than confront it directly after the defeat of 1948 (it annexed it later stating its incompetence).
Social services wing
I don't disagree.
They were used for welfare too, but not everything can be solved with valueless paper notes.
I never hid my "true colors", The nation simply shouldn't have existed. BTW you're still not addressing your "innocent people of Gaza" comment, and that's a pretty ugly shade. So you haven't unlocked the moral high ground yet.
All of you assholes down voting my comment, tell me how stating facts deserves your down votes.
Stating facts deserve downvotes when they’re stated in a way that intentionally misrepresents them, especially when that purpose is justifying genocide.
That's a gross misrepresentation of what I wrote, also, there's no genocide being done today. On October 7th however...
I’m no defender of the US or anything but I doubt they’d be bombing refugee camps and hospitals.
I get the feeling, given that Israel has killed more civilians in 3 months than the US did in Afghanistan in 20 years, that the US doesn't go out of its way to deliberately target civilians.
Whats fucked up is the US did kill a lot of civilians too. You can look up interviews with marine Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey who details some really brutal standard oeperating procedures on some of the cities most occupied by the terrorists forces. He describes pulling bodies from cars 'time and time again' that turned out to be civilians just trying to flee the city(which is a possible reason why they ignored the US troops warning shot). It's some horrifying stuff, and what makes me sick is that by the numbers it's so much worse in Gaza still. I can't fathom the lack of regard for life it takes to do what Israel is doing, even giving them every benefit of the doubt it looks worse than what the Staff Sergeant admitted to and in his own words called genocide.
While US sponsored military committed atrocities in Afghanistan it served their overall goal to avoid it as much as possible. We have plenty of examples where that wasn't the case, but generally the US prefers to arm counter-revolutionaries and fascists to do what they do.
They'll get to those once they are done bombing all the weddings.
was there more than one wedding bombed?
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/us-has-bombed-least-eight-wedding-parties-2001/
Sounds like there’s still a bunch of weddings left to hit if your framing is taken seriously. Seems like they aren’t as comparable to Israel in bloodlust as you imply. Israel got more civilian kills in 3 months than the US got in 20 years in Afghanistan after all.
Bad people and organizations are still bad even if others do worse, you don’t need to falsely equivocate the two.
"Refugee camps" is something of a misleading term when it comes to Gaza. While there are several settlements that did begin decades ago as camps of tents, which is the image the term conjures, at this point they are essentially cities like any other. Due to some unique legal circumstances, a huge chunk of the population of Gaza are legally considered refugees by the UN, but this is a unique status that's even inheritable by the descendents of the people who originally fled during the establishment of Israel.
This isn't to defend bombing civilians, to be clear. It's just that, frankly, it's difficult to throw a dart at Gaza without hitting what is legally considered a refugee camp.
The valid response to that is not "Oh well, guess lots of civilians are gonna die", it's "Shit, guess we can't bomb the place then."
My point is that, in this context, "bombing a refugee camp" is not meaningfully different than bombing any other urban environment.
Which is to say, very deadly and terrible and generally a bad idea unless there are literally no other options, which I would say isn't really the case here.
The majority of the population in Gaza was not born when Hamas "won the election" (which, by the way, was supported by Israel). Then now they have no choice but to "show support" in polls because Hamas is authoritarian. That's like saying the majority of North Koreans are supportive of Kim Jong Un's government because the polls say he has a 100% approval rating.
Those babies in the hospitals didn't vote for anyone. Besides, a war crime is a war crime even if the target "deserved" it.
A whole population doesn't deserve to be punished for the crimes of some of them. It's the kind of barbaric evil practised by dictators.
Israel has chosen to attack mostly the population instead of precisely hostile forces
Gaza has chosen to completely blur the boundaries between combatants, locations used for terrorist attacks and the civilian population. They expected to Israel to just sit on their hands and go "duh, guess we'll have to accept them kidnapping people and wildly shooting missiles at us."
That was a fucking dumb expectation and now everyone there has to pay for it.
You might say they are being punished collectively. Like collective punishment. Aka a war crime
Maybe Israel could... Not starve them. Maybe let them actually have an economy. These things would really help.
Ungodly amounts of money were pumped into Gaza and all they have to show for it is tunnels for terrorists to hide in, weapons caches in every house and thousands of rockets. Is that supposed to be the "economy" of Gaza?
Also there is no need for you to respond, this outs you as a disgusting creature completely lost to any form of reason.
Which doesn't help when you can't actually use it to buy things. Israel's blockade is calculated so it keeps Gaza on the brink of collapse after aid.
Where do you expect Palestine to field its conventional army and will Israel allow them to get tanks planes etc shipped in?
Its a war zone the size of a city, how else are they going to fight here in your mind?
Who said anything about tanks and planes? Stop that nonsense. How about wearing some sort of uniform to make them distinguishable from civilians instead of running around in tracksuits hiding weapons? They love to dress up like soldiers for photo ops and parades but when push comes to shove they wear adidas and sneakers.
They decided to play war dressed as civilians and hide among them - a war crime that expectedly makes civilians into potential targets.
Oh so that's why Israel has leveled city blocks? That's why they have killed 1 out of 100 of every Palestinian? That's why the starve them, take away their electricity, aid, and water? The "was crimes" that is just guerilla warfare is puny in comparison to the atrocities that Israel commits on the daily, for the last 70 years.
That's on Hamas. They steal all the aid and murder the people living there. They misfire their rockets on their "own" people trying to harm Israel. Go direct your complaints at them - they can stop the war.
And I see how you just completely ignore the fact that Hamas war crimes directly lead to the civilian populace becoming a target. Engaging in combat dressed as a civilian is not "guerilla" warfare - even those wear their uniforms to act within the Geneva Conventions. What Hamas does is just plain old terrorism.
why would the Israelis fund Hamas then?
Hamas does not “steal all the aid.” The Israeli government under Benjamin Netanyahu has funded Hamas for years, in a truly chef’s kiss strategy to keep the population of Gaza under their thumb.
lol another one who completely disregards everything that was said before to throw in some completely unrelated bullshit. Talking to you people is like talking to pidgeons
then why did they allow them to move south and not just finish them there?
Bombing the escapees seems to be an attempt at that
The irony of your username.
Uh... I know your ilk don't care about the facts, but October 7th was legitimate resistance. That's why it targeted military facilities, and why even after the IDF shot and shelled their own citizens 33% of casualties were military targets. Not denying that too many atrocities were committed, but "October 7th was a terrorist attack" is basically Israeli propaganda at this point.
But even if that wasn't the case, stop supporting genocide.
Let me see you try telling that to the folks who were at the music festival.
I did say I acknowledge and condemn all atrocities that were committed. However, that and the idea that October 7th as a whole was a terrorist attack are different things, because to say October 7th was a terrorist attack is to deny the concrete military goals it had or, alternatively, claim that in addition to these goals it had the goal of killing civilians. The distinction is important because "Hamas soldiers committed atrocities on October 7th" and "October 7th was legitimate resistance" aren't mutually exclusive, but "October 7th was a terrorist attack" and "October 7th was legitimate resistance" are.
Also, the IDF killed their fair share of civilians at the festival, so blaming all the casualties on Hamas requires numbers that Israel refuses to release or denies altogether.
Jesus fucking Christ.