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Ron DeSantis condemned as Florida removes sociology as core college class
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 18 Feb 2024
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US's biggest problem IMO is undereducation. Lots of people seems to lack basic intellectual auto-defense skill. It's been a problem for a long time, but given how easy AI makes it to create disinformation, the shit will eventually hit the fan and even the GOP will be beging for a minimal education cursus to fix the mess they created.
Education is valued in certain circles. But in others its utterly useless. In most trades it is looked down on.
I teach in an electrical apprenticeship and I don’t find that, students are eager to know more. What I do find is that my students are undereducated in logic and critical thinking skills. I get a lot of “can you just make me a checklist I can follow.”
I'm teaching computer networking and this hits the nail on the head. My students are plenty willing to learn answers to multiple choice questions. However, it is like pulling teeth trying to give them anything even slightly open ended. Sorry, at your real job the boss isn't going to come up to you in a panic and say "the network went down, which of these 4 answers is the reason?"
Troubleshooting, researching, and having curiosity are all important in this field. I'm having difficulty getting them to see that, or care.
Me and my millenial siblings went to good schools, college, etc, but nothing at school seemed to encourage these things. In school it felt like a lot of tricks on how to be successful on multiple choice and short essay tests.
We were all typically ahead of our peers I think because at home we were taught art and handywork, how to research and solve problems on our own, how to think critically and be curious from a young age.
Among my cohort it seemed like the arts and creativity were seen as totally separate from technical work like programming. But some of the most successful people I've known in the computer science field have been very artistic as well. There are skills you learn outside of the typical 'hard science' curriculum that seem neglected.
What did you get a degree in? I studied philosophy, so I did a shitload of very long papers and open-ended assignments that required a lot of reading, researching, and critical thinking. I feel like a lot of STEM students completely miss out on this element of college.
Nah, they're all already much better writers than the English majors because they read Dune and Foundation, and they understand history better than the history majors because they pulled up like a million wikipedia pages while Call of Duty was installing, and they're more attuned to the needs of the government than the poli-sci majors because they listened to three TED talks. ;-)
Now, I'm mostly kidding. I know that most STEM majors write better than most English majors can do calculus; I'm just saying that I've known some engineers and doctors who confused that basic competence with mastery.
I have spent a lot of time in construction or logistics to construction sites. For several different disciplines. It's not that they don't have the drive to learn. I find they don't respect my knowledge of logistics or how certain mechanisms work. It's not isolated to my own experience as well. There are several people that sell college is pointless. Get a job and get your hands dirty. I think it's a viable option. I also think college is valuable as well. It depends on the person and their goals.
It's because education is sold as a way to get a job. Nobody communicates the value of being an educated person other than the salary one could potentially make.
I think it's two branch to a tree. I'm confused why I'm being down voted when it really seems everyone agrees with my premise. It's not my fault I'm pointing out how it's perceived.
My guess is it's because it looks like your second sentence is saying education is useless when the people around you don't value it.
Yea. Tell that to my life that has only benefited since I earned my degree. I have more interviews. I have more options. I earn more money and have more responsibilities. I guess that it's valued by some, but it's valued by me.
They like to 'Kill the Messenger' here on Lemmy a lot, for some reason.
Which is really not healthy for Lemmy in the long run, but that's a whole other discussion to be had.
It's a fundamental flaw of the vote system. Downvotes are just an "I disagree/I don't like that/Boo!" button.
It's not so much the button itself, but how it's used, which is the problem.
When it's used as a weapon to attack someone, and not just for disagreeing with what they're saying, is what I'm speaking towards. That irresponsible use of the button. That's not healthy for Lemmy.
Granted that button press, even when used responsibly, can mean different things two different people, which I think is what you were speaking towards.
I say that the way it is being used is an inevitable result of its existence; a downvote button will always turn out this way. I don't think you can have downvotes without it turning into an “I disagree/I don’t like that/Boo!” button. Hence, a fundamental flaw of the system.
You could have more than two buttons. Interesting, agree, disagree.
Well yeah, the problem is a large portion of tradesmen are often misguided or just wrong on like every topic in the first place. My experience with welders and specific types of electricians, for example, is mostly filled with extremely misogynist people who take pride in ignorance. They aren't very reliable for opinions on education or even common sense. Of course, this doesn't apply to all tradesmen by any means, but those who aren't like this are likely to get strongarmed into acting the same or just get bullied out of the field. Like these are professions where employers will decide to not hire you based on the vehicle you drive, you have to conform to this "culture" of theirs in order to be taken seriously.
Something which doesn't really apply to "lower" skill welders, but I've heard from some "higher" skill (pipe/aerospace) welders, is complaints about not being able to do basic arithmetic&algebra or understand trigonometry... I'm not ripping on them, but they've seemingly had a lot of annoying situations and wasted a lot of time because they don't know multiplication well, and don't understand the logic behind the mathematics that they frequently encounter in their job. Sure, a lot of times the mathematics in trades can just be measuring and reading schematics and nothing else, but some work needs that kind of education and most tradesmen just seem to not have it.
Other types of education involved with communication, psychology, sociology, etc. can be extremely important for these professions, even if they don't affect the manual labour itself. A job is usually a lot more than just doing the work you were tasked to do, you have to actually discuss with people, and a lot of tradesmen completely lack skills in that department to the point it frequently causes issues...
In a democracy, education is always useful.
Tradespeople are educated, they’re just not university educated - they’re educated at a vocational education level. If they’re not educated, they’re not qualified, so they’re just a handyman. What are you trying to say? Even people who perform non-qualified roles receive education on-the-job.
This is my exact point. An education in this context is higher learning in a form of a degree or some sort of academic persuit. I don't think it as a more than or less than. It's just a different path.
You aren't wrong. Which is why I push the younger guys with any brains to get an engineering degree. Some do some don't.