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this post was submitted on 09 Mar 2024
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Gun violence is a symptom of socioeconomic inequality and a lack of mental health care. We could ban all guns today and while I'm sure there would be a reduction in violent events, people wanting to cause harm would switch to bladed weapons (see knife crime in the UK and axe attacks in China).
And even if he were right, when was the last time you heard of someone in the UK stabbing a hundred people at a concert, or thirty kids in an elementary school?
There's been at least one organized mass stabbing in China, I don't think everyone died but over a hundred people were stabbed by a half dozen or so attackers.
So a "half-dozen" people organized to do with knives what one American could do with a gun?
Something that in the us is called a "Tuesday", we might add.
Yes, guns are obviously much more dangerous
Cool. There are over 600 mass shootings in the U.S. every year.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/mass-shootings-days-2023-database-shows/story?id=96609874
That wasn't a rebuttal, I'm pointing out how challenging it is that multiple people need knives in order to hit the numbers a single a shooter can. It's exceptionally rare.
Yeah no it's not. You're try to compare a place with social safety nets to a country that doesn't have any.
Trying to compare the EU to the USA for anything gun wise is pointless.
If there's one thing the last four years have taught us, it's that there's an overwhelming number of Americans who disagree with both sides of that analogy.
Antibiotics? You mean vaccines. Two very different things. If anything, those Americans are into antibiotics too much to the point that they thought taking them would stop COVID.
If Trump told them to never take antibiotics, they'd throw them all out that day.
Lol no it's not. The UK has no where near what we have when it comes to civ gun ownership. There are more guns in civ hands than all armies combined basically. When Australia did their forced buyback they had a 60% turn in rate....they had 1mil in civ hands at that time. Do you know what 40% is of 450 million firearms? Still more than all other nations that allow their citizens to even look at a firearm.
We have a very small sub set of people who commit gun violence. Do you think they'll be the ones to turn them in? No. Because most legally cannot own them now.
Gun control works great if you have safety nets already in place so people don't turn to crime to survive.
Also the NRA can fuck off... it's always hilarious when you think you're arguing with some Republican NRA dipshit.
What bullshit did I spew? The NRA just says mental health and gun control doesn't work. You listed a link to fucking Harvard which is known to directly make studies to say what they want. This isn't news.
I've stated that safety nets in countries with less crime in general isn't because they have less guns. It's because their citizens are taken care of. Are you really going to sit there and say this isn't true?
Suicides...guns do not magically make people more prone to suicide, this is and has always been false. Japan is one of the strictest countries on the planet for access to firearms. Yet they have a suicide rate that is far greater than ours. Are you suggesting their miniscule amount of suicides is related to their access to firearms?
Man you got me I'm a minority hillbilly who follows the NRA and watches faux news. Got me.
You apparently have an issue with reading comprehension, what part of fuck the NRA did you not get?
The studies from Harvard are well known flawed. Their DGU study assumed that for a DGU to happen a shot had to be fired, this is just single example of shit data. Most DGUs the firearm is never even drawn, usually it's shown and that's enough to de-escalate the situation.
I'll ask you, how do you plan on banning and getting rid of 450+ million firearms? You going to collect them all?
The CDC used to do legit studies, but since the whole "we're going to make a link that proves guns are bad" a lot of their shit has gone down hill. The level of pressure from Bloomberg "stop and frisk" and his ilk create a lot of bullshit studies that are designed to say one thing.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm
The ivory tower you sit in is so bright no one is able to look at it...
Actually, to that point, EU v US is a better comparison than "a country the size of Michigan" v US.
Here's the company America is in, worldwide, for the right to own guns.
Only 3 countries in the world protect the right to bear arms in their constitutions: the US, Mexico, and Guatemala
The Czech Republic does as well. Mexico doesn't really count, it's basically impossible to get a firearm as a civ and the cartels have basically all the weapons
If somebody is going to try and kill me, I'd prefer they at least break a sweat in doing so.
Also there is empirical evidence that people are less "empathic" the further away they are from you. Shooting someone is psychologically much easier than stabbing someone.
It can be a nervous sweat if it needs to be.
Which leads to hundreds/thousands of people not dying every year due to being shot.
Even if it's only one life saved, that's great. But can't we want to fix the systemic problems that lead to gun violence as well? It also fixes a lot of other bad things that don't lead to gun violence, like homelessness, depression, preventable deaths, inadequate health care, etc.
What I'm saying is that guns aren't the problem. They make the problem worse. I'd like to see us try to fix both instead of a half measure of different gun laws.
We can do both.
You're not completely wrong. But (1) guns make it sooo much easier to cause a lot of harm, and (2) a gun gives you so much more confidence than a knife. Also: you can run from a knife, you can't run from a gun
Ahh, not handicapable, I see.
But unintended ableism aside, you'd also be surprised, if you can get upwards of 25yrd away from the shooter, they probably can't hit you for shit (doubly so if they have a glock switch, they reduce accuracy). Most criminals don't train at all, much less for distance.
You are a bit delulu hmmm?
No, there's a reason most people who get shot, especially with handguns, are closer than 75ft: it's harder than you think. To me it's delusional how many people seem to think aim assist is real.
I wasn't referring to that, I'm aware of the inverse square law.
I guess I miss interpreted your previous comment for pro-gun, my bad.
A knife battle sounds kinda better. I'll have a greater chance to survive and some bad-ass scars.
The loser of a knife fight dies in the parking lot, the winner dies in the ambulance.
Buddy of mine (alright, coworker, but he was cool) decided to try and break up a bar fight one night, one of the guys ended up slicing his stomach right the fuck open. Like REALLY open. Was fucking wild, dude spent a long time in the hospital and never came back to work, but I did hear he was doing better so he at least did live.
Still though, point is, knife attacks are a lot more brutal than those who advocate for knives think.
Keep thinking that. Meanwhile most people here wouldn't be able to fight off someone with a knife.
It takes size and muscle, shooting the attacker takes a single trigger pull.
You may not like to hear it, but guns aren't going anywhere. Maybe if we stop making out gun owners to be some raging lunatics. Then they may be more likely to give them up.
This is all pointless anyway.
Knife crime in UK is still lower than knife crime in US. You've been drinking some weird kool-aid without faxt checking.
Sounds like I should stay strapped so I don't get poked
Its more like there are already hundreds of millions of guns in the US. Criminal element and the scum of society would keep theirs while the law abiding surrender theirs. Society would get worse and less safe.
But the so-called law abiding didn't surrender their altered guns, did they?
I'd say its a symptom of our police and justice system being completely ineffective at cleaning up our cities and locking away violent offenders to keep them out of society. They're more interested in milking the taxpayers for stupid shit that doesn't require any effort like traffic tickets or massive amounts of overtime for doing nothing. There's too many violent people out there and no one is doing anything to neutralize the threat to law abiding society.
🤡
Pure and unadulterated bullshit.
(Also the US has more knife crime than the UK as well).
I totally agree. The anti-gun crowd is just a bunch of useful idiots who refuse to tackle problems at their roots.
They're also usually city-folk who don't understand that people living in rural America only have guns to defend themselves. No cop is going to protect their farmhouse from robbers, lol.
So the pro gun in the US are just farmers that need to defend their farmhouse from robbers? You might want to sit down and think who the useful idiot is here.
Not too long ago here on Lemmy, someone told me that we need guns to protect ourselves from attacks by bears, mountain lions and rattlesnakes. Even in cities. They showed me a link about a bear harmlessly roaming around some suburb as proof of this necessity.
My pointing out that there have been 180 fatal bear attacks in all of North America since the 18th century, and many of those were bears in captivity, didn't help.
What's funny is that I don't ever see any "sensible" gun owners telling these people to stop helping.