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[-] Chadarius@lemmy.world 58 points 1 year ago

This is a good thing. The only way the red states will change is by getting worse and worse. They will have no doctors, teachers, nurses, lawyers, or corporations that will purposefully live or do their work there if they can help it. If you are a woman, a person of color, a migrant, an LGBTQ person, a child, or anything other than an old white man, the red states are no longer safe for you.

I basically refuse to go to most of those states if I can help it. Florida? You couldn't pay me to set foot in that state. I feel they same about Texas and many others.

I want conservatism to thrive. It does have a place in a healthy political system. But, my friends, the conservatives are the moderate Dems now. I don't know what else to call the Republicans, other than fascists or cult members. It is a sickness that any person in their right mind should run as fast as they can from.

The truly upsetting part about this is that there are people that are desperate to leave those fascist states, that can't for a variety of reasons outside their control. I wish things were different. This is just insanity.

[-] Bridger@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I want conservatism to thrive. It does have a place in a healthy political system.

What place is that? Conservatism at it's core is about maintaining the aristocracy/hierarchy. That's what it started as, and it's never wavered from that mission. All of the claims towards 'conserving what is good' or 'fiscal responsibility' or 'protecting individual rights' are just that: claims. They have never acted in ways that would back those claims up unless their actions also helped maintain/promote the aristocracy. The rest is just noise and propaganda designed to make their positions sound palatable.

I don't see any place for that in a healthy political system.

[-] Chadarius@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago

I disagree with you, but respectfully. Conservatism is basically just people who, for a variety of reasons (not all of them bad), generally vote for the status quo. This is human nature. Progressives are willing to push forward but also sometimes without regard to some of the consequences. Also human nature. Some people are bold and some people are timid. Having both around in a balanced way helps us all move forward with careful thought. That system is good overall.

The problem is that conservatives are really moderate democrats now. The modern Republicans are not conservatives. They are fascist cultist morons. I believe I explained myself fairly well in my first post. You might want to read the whole thing next time :)

[-] Ennuigo@lemm.ee 19 points 1 year ago

I disagree that it is "good" overall. Conservative policies have always stood in the way of any movement to treat all people equally because the status quo benefits a sections of the population. Slavery. Racism. Sexism. Etc. None of these needed to be "conserved" and we would be a better society if we had been able to address them sooner. Also, conservative power structures when threatened by progress default to authoritarian in brutal fashion. The Holocaust. The Civil War. The Inquisition. Etc. And this is just in the West.

The modern Republican is not an aberration. It is the final form of Conservatism.

I have seen no proof that the consequences of rampant Progressivism are in any way equal to the horrors of rampant Conservatism. The idea that we need to validate Conservativism to "balance out" Progressivism seems to me to be a dangerous myth that is paid for with the blood of oppressed people.

[-] PostmodernPythia@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I strongly suggest reading Corey Robin’s The Reactionary Mind. He makes an excellent case that, from Edmund Burke to now, conservatism has been about preserving historical hierarchies. Men over women, straight over gay, white over Black, religious over not, etc. The status quo just tends to be full of hierarchies we haven’t rooted out, so their claim seems believable even though it’s false.

[-] ceeg@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

The only way the red states will change is by getting worse and worse. They will have no doctors, teachers, nurses, lawyers, or corporations that will purposefully live or do their work there if they can help it. If you are a woman, a person of color, a migrant, an LGBTQ person, a child, or anything other than an old white man, the red states are no longer safe for you.

ah so if you're poor, taking care of loved ones, or otherwise unable to move, then your life is acceptable collateral damage? accelerationism has victims.

[-] Chadarius@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Yes I totally agree. this sucks. What would you have us do? I already vote blue. That is probably the best thing we can all do. I will not set foot in a bright red state for any reason at this point. That is self preservation and protecting my own family.

[-] ZheSquirrel@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

ah so if you’re poor, taking care of loved ones, or otherwise unable to move, then your life is acceptable collateral damage? accelerationism has victims.

People who've never been to those states don't realize they're literally a trap.

The rent and cost of living is lower, sure, but so is the pay, and so even if you want to leave you just don't nake enough money to save up. Moving is expensive, and a lot of blue states cost a lot more than red, so it's extremely difficult to not only put money aside to move, but also enough to cover the higher cost of living.

And then what if you can't find a job right away? A lot of folks in the south couldn't afford an education, so we get stuck as unkilled labor which makes it harder to find a living wage.

Meanwhile you have well off people who've never really struggled in the same way aaying it's their fault for not moving sooner, or in a lot of cases accuse them of "refusing help" somehow.

It's tiring and extremely frustrating.

[-] PostmodernPythia@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

I hear this a lot. If you have a better solution that protects the safety and rights of people leaving, while helping those who can’t? Because if not, you’re not helping. “Stay and suffer because not everyone can leave” is a broken idea. And if you think the current institutional infrastructure is capable of solving this problem, I have a lovely bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

[-] ceeg@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

That is NOT what I said. I'm not going to criticize people leaving, and I think it's the best option GIVEN an option. It's a very exclusive strategy that I don't want to be endorsing. Obviously electoral politics are broken. Maybe we can use our imagination tho

[-] Drusas@kbin.social 23 points 1 year ago

Florida Republicans are working reeaally hard to kill their state's entire economy right now. Attacking Disney (the state's biggest employer) and undocumented immigrants (the backbone of the state's agricultural industry and a key part of the labor force for various others such as construction and hospitality), driving away teachers by taking away their right to actually teach, etc.

[-] JustZ@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Not to mention denying climate change, as the states is getting ready to spend the next thousand years covered in seaweed 25 feet high.

[-] GladiusB@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

I wholeheartedly disagree. We need to wake up to a more refined political system. A two party system will not sustain a future. We are in a lull due to the previous 6 years being a total shit show.

However, a healthy political system represents the constituents. Our system represents the representatives. Europe has the right idea and has been doing it a lot longer. Having 12 candidates elected on merit makes the country more productive and satisfied with their choice.

[-] Chadarius@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I totally agree. I don't like a two party system, nor did I advocate for one. We need to separate progressive, moderate, conservative, etc from party affiliation. All of those European candidates running all fall on that spectrum regardless of their party. In the US Democrats have progressives, moderates, and conservatives in the same party. The GOP does not, but they used to have much more diversity of beliefs 40-50 years ago. Post civil rights and especially since Nixon, the Republicans have continually devolved into the total fascist shit show that we see today.

If the US would move away from the two party system for elections like Alaska has recently done, we would end up with much better candidates. Ranked choice voting for whoever the best candidate is regardless of party. I would love that.

[-] Saneless@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They don't care.

Drive through WV and let me know how much further it has to fall for them to get it.

Go to full red states and listen to them complain about issues that are 100% state legislature and governor issues. But they find a way to blame Obama, Biden, and still fucking cry about Clinton. Both of the Clintons.

The brainwashing is 100%

[-] _cerpin_taxt_@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I wish there was some kind of fund that we could setup to help relocate the vulnerable in red states (aka everyone but straight white men) but I'm sure they'd figure out a way to mess with it.

[-] Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

There kinda is actually:

https://www.rainbowrailroad.org/

It's limited to LGBTQ+, and I'm not sure how active they are in the U.S., but as the demand for it grows here I'm sure the help they'll allocate towards getting people away from fascists will grow as well.

this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2023
628 points (95.8% liked)

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