305
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2024
305 points (96.6% liked)
World News
39032 readers
2328 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Do the IDF soldiers stop following these illegal orders at some point? Or have they been desensitized to what they’re doing?
You’re speaking like they don’t want to do this of their own accord?
if any soldier (IDF or not) refuses orders they will either be shot on site or imprisoned unless they either have enough $$$ or connections to overturn it.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Nuremberg_defense
What if the soldiers and superiors stop shooting people on the spot. Okay wait, wait. What if... people stop obeying some lunatic single elderly people that tell us to kill other men, period, and just... not do it?
That would be neat. Imagine if humans knew what it means to be many against few, strong against weak. What we could accomplish...
There was a massive protest by ex military and general public demanding the right of raping Palestinians. This is not about elderly people deploying orders.
But where are they getting the idea that this is morally correct? Indoctrination. If our governments had no such power to influence its population, and/or limit its access to the truth, we could be so much wiser as a world population.
But it most certainly is, in general, about elderly giving orders. So many soldiers do not want to go to war. You really think the majority of soldiers in the world want to be in a war? That is ridiculous.
Can you cite this for me? I need to read up. Somehow I’ve been understanding that they were protesting in support of the Palestinians.
Jesus, you want a citation for this?
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israelis-protest-arrest-of-soldiers-accused-of-gang-raping-gazan-detainee/3288825
There have been protests inside Israel for ceasefire, the org Standing Together has done a lot of good organizing inside the country.
But one thing that Oct.7 accomplished was show the divisions in society wrt Palestinian apartheid. Its getting more difficult for people who can't abide it to coexist with people who are okay with it; and the people who believe there should be even more brutality and violence against Palestinians are becoming a major problem for both of those groups. The state of Israel is fracturing, while groups like the PFLP, Hamas and Fatah are coming together for the first time in decades. While some of the tactics of Hamas are unconscionable, and Fatah has a long collaborationist history with Israel, it definitely indicates a dramatic change of the dynamics in the region. We'll see what holds together and what breaks apart. Its very sad that Marwan Barghouti is currently imprisoned, he's one of the most popular figures in Palestine whereas Fatah and Hamas are fairly unpopular
People like citation so as to not blindly believe anything and everything they just mindlessly read on the internet. Its kinda suspicious that youre being antagonistic about someone wanting to see a source on an outrageous claim like that.
I didn't mean it to be antagonistic, and I provided a source. Its just such a disgusting story, bereft of any humanity. I wish I had never heard about it, I just couldn't believe someone wanted to like read about it
a lot outside the military.
there is no such thing as an egalitarian military; they're tools of oppression and hegemony, not improvement.
Yeah, no, what I meant was to imagine what we could accomplish as a world population, if we realized that the many outrank the few, and we just stopped fighting each other. That would speed us all along so freaking fast, towards daily food and water and shelter for every single person on earth.
But no, we gotta kill each other for nonsense.
No sane military in the world does that anymore. Although I do doubt the sanity of the IDF
Pat Tillman has entered the chat
Or the story is hysterical exaggeration and lies.
It's a second-hand account of somebody who saw a video, anyway.
The original video is linked in the article. Looks pretty damning to me.
Broken link for me.
I sent it to you in another comment. Here:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-investigating-demolition-of-water-facility-by-troops-in-southern-gaza
Have you watched the video yet?
Yes. I don't know enough about the people or place to say if it's legit or not. I know I often see links to "smoking gun" videos like this that do not show what they claim to show. I think this video requires you to take a lot on faith; that it is what it's claimed to be or that the video is even from Gaza and not so.e other war somewhere. Is shows some pipes and then a building blowing up shown from far away. The account that posted it apparently is deleted or private now.
Maybe the video is legit. Israeli army says they are investigating. Maybe the water system was supplying the tunnels, which would make it a legit target.
If claims about the video are true, it certainly flies in the face of other evidence like the fact that Israel lets new water infrastructure into Gaza all the time and new water desalinization plants have opened (and haven't been destroyed) even just since the war began.
"Ahhh what is this horror? This video mounting even more evidence of Israeli war crimes?? IT CANNOT BE TRUE!"
LOL.
If it turns out to be legit, which I would stress - since it was posted by the IDF soldiers themselves* - seems likely: would you not agree that this is likely a war crime?
*some edits to add.
From the Times of Israel article about it:
The Canadian government, who built the plant, also agrees that the video shows it being destroyed: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-calls-for-probe-into-demolished-canadian-water-treatment-plant-in-gaza-1.7281666
Seems very unlikely an IDF soldier would post a video claiming to be destroying a facility, which we know exists, and the people who paid to build it would identify it was the same building, and it would turn out to not be in Gaza at all. It is almost certainly the plant discussed in these articles.
In fact, it is an act of genocide, since depriving the population of water is "Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part."
Isn't the main issue whether the facility was supplying the civilian population? What about proportionality?
We spoke about this before. Here is the link to the facts again: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68969239
Half of Gaza's water sites had been damaged or destroyed as of that report.
And here is the image of three specific examples again:
It certainly doesn't "fly in the face of other evidence," the evidence is all pointing in the same direction.
When we spoke about this previously, you speculated (based on "probability," in your words) that the facilities were maybe collateral damage during an attack on Hamas fighters. In this case, we have the video footage. No Hamas fighters. Charges specifically placed on water infrastructure. No attempt to access or destroy a tunnel. This is simply naked evidence of an intentional attack on the necessities of life for the civilian population.
I can accept lsrsel destroying infrastructure that is used to sustain Hamas holdouts at this point in the war, as long as Israel is bringing in water and opening new infrastructure, outside the influence and control of Hamas. That seems uncontroversial. I don't know if that's what happened here.
I join Canada and Israel and calling for a full investigation and if it is found to be true, then I join in calling for the perpetrators to be hanged. That also seems uncontroversial.
Three or four people have posted counterpoints to me now, and various links, and of course the video itself. All of these sources cite the video.
The video shows some guys standing around some pipes and then an exterior shot of an explosion. That's accompanied by some text and audio. It's posted on TikTok. As far as I can tell, the claims haven't been independently verified, that is, confirmed by credible, factual reporting extrinsic to the video.
And here we are once again with a most sensational claim being shared as if it was truth despite the fact that the only two or three credible sources that even bothered to run a story about the video make clear that it hasn't been independently verified. There's one credible story from Israel about the IDF acknowledging the video and saying it will investigate. There's one credible story out of Canada from some low-level diplomat saying that they saw the video and calling for independent investigation. That also seems uncontroversial.
Ok but there are two stories you say are credible just below this, and they establish clear facts.
So two questions:
Do you believe this was posted by an IDF soldier, as reported by the Times of Israel?
Do you believe the video shows the Canada Well plant, as stated by both the original poster and a representative of the Canadian government?
If the answer to both of these is yes, what remaining reason is there to doubt the video? You say the "claims" haven't been verified but no claim is needed. It is on video. Do you mean the claim that the facility was destroyed, and that the external shot was not of something else being destroyed?
I am not being obtuse here, I just really don't understand what you mean
Darn it X. There’s mirrors but I don’t know where to look. Regardless this wasn’t some hearsay, I saw the video posted too.
Typical nonsense argument from of you types.
You didn't block me because you didn't figure out how to do it... as for not saying any of those things, I'll be back with screenshots :) give me 10 mins
"Hysterical" to gaslight like it's the 60's.