Do they call themselves/identify as neurotypicals, or are you just calling them that?
It might be that you are assuming typicality when they have communication requirements you are failing to account for, making it hard for them.
They might enjoy deep conversation rather than small talk but find it difficult to engage with your approach. Maybe give them a little time and let them feel comfortable in the process rather than pressuring them?
You have some good points. I have assumed them as neurotypicals, for one reason or another.
Maybe, I could try being mindful of everyone's communication style. Trying different things, and seeing what works best for each person.
I don't think I consciously pressure them. I generally don't initiate deep conversation, as it has not always gone well in the past, so now I just mask with small talk, despite hating it. But I will try to be mindful of my approach nonetheless.
I'm not sure it is useful to label anyone as neurotypical. It's a point on a scale, a notional best fit, and not a reality. Sure, some people are closer to that point, but I find everyone has their own diversity.
You suggest trying different things, and I think that's a brilliant stalrategy.
My go-to is to ask people what they are really into. I ask it pretty bluntly.
That said, some folk, no matter what, just might not have much to say, so don't be hard on yourself.
Also, what are you really into?
You're perspective is good, because it's challenging my own perspective in a constructive way.
I'm not sure it is useful to label anyone as neurotypical. It's a point on a scale, a notional best fit, and not a reality. Sure, some people are closer to that point, but I find everyone has their own diversity.
That might be the black and white thinking coming out. But it may also be the point I'm at. I'm frustrated, because I have a hard time connecting with others, and I'm trying to figure out why that is, and what I can do, to change that.
That said, some folk, no matter what, just might not have much to say, so don't be hard on yourself.
Yeah okay. I have a tendency towards self-criticism.
Also, what are you really into?
I like certain niche anime's, like Serial Experiments Lain, Ergo Proxy, and some not so niche but are interesting conceptually, like Psycho-Pass. I seem to find Japan interesting, despite the cultural issues they appear to have. I like psychology and philosophy, especially around trying to be the best person reasonably possible, and trying to let go, of what one cannot control. To challenge my unhealthy behaviours and thoughts, and guide myself to a more healthy outlook. I also seem to find anything that relates to understanding myself interesting, because I have struggled to understand why I always struggled, when others appeared not to. Even if what I saw of others was just a facade? I care a lot about trying to have a good quality of life, and building meaningful relationships with others. Though, I find the latter very difficult.
What are you really into?
I'm also enjoying this conversation because it is helping me think through ways of connecting and communicating.
You seem to work on self improvent in lots of different ways, and that is really commendable. Especially trying to understand yourself and the world through philosophy and psychology.
Anime! I'm afraid I only know a little... when I was younger I watched Fist of The North Star, and now I sit with my niece as she watches My Hero Academia. I'm very much a fan of studio Ghibli too. Are there any that you would recommend to someone like me? Casual and easier to get into?
I've always wanted to see japan, their culture is complex and fascinating. Their food is delicious.
I do read quite a lot of Japanese literature though. Have you ever encountered Kobo Abe? He's a writer, musician and artist. He Wrote a book called 'The Box Man'. It's a bout a man who one day moves into a large cardboard box and refuses to leave it. It is a little surreal, and funny and bleak at the same time. I'm not sure a Western writer could have pulled off such a work. It's also fairly short and there are good translations out there.
It really resonated with me when I found it hard to relate to the world, particularly socially.
As for what I'm into, I really, really geek out over modern art. I can't explain it, but I just find so much joy in looking at paintings and sculptures. I can spend hours alone with them and not really feel alone, or I can see things that I've never thought of. Some of it repulses me, but I've learnt to find enjoyment in that too. It's as deep as I want it to be. Sometimes it can be surface, "that's pretty" or sometimes it can be conceptual and philosophical.
For what it's worth, you come across as a a very clear and friendly communicator. I really appreciate the time you have taken to reply to me too. Thank you.
I find other neuro-divergents a complete mixed bag to talk to, so basically the same as everyone else. If we’re sympatico it’s great, otherwise it can be all long awkward silences or talking past each other.
I tend to get much more comfortable enough to talk with other NDs than I do with NTs. Other NDs tend to also share many of the same interests so we have more to talk about anyway. But I mean... there are also plenty of others I've met with severe ADHD/low functioning autism and/or no coping skills that are just frustrating or uncomfortable to talk with for various reasons. I'd still take one of them over most NTs, tho.
ND 100%
Doesn't matter. I've had bad experiences with both ND and NT.
NT here, find it easiet to talk to other NT people. I have to shift my thinking to communicate with NB people on their level. With other NT people it's automatic.
Not sure why this got so many down votes. But interesting getting a perspective from the other side.
It looks like it got only one downvote but maybe my instance isn't federating with the downvoters.
It has gotten to a point that if we only just met, but instantly connect and get into an interesting conversation then i can just assume your neurodivergent. There has yet to be a case where i am proven wrong. I often just plain tell them “btw do you know what neurodivergent is after 2-3 encounters.
Some other people i still cant communicate properly with every years of working with them. There usually the most normal seeming people around.
I definitely automatically drift towards ND people, basically every friend I've had was some flavour of ND. However there are also ND people who are just as difficult for me to get along with as NTs. To be blunt here, really stubborn/argumentative people and super high energy ADHD people come to mind. Like, even if the basic parts of our communication style are the same, I still can't keep up with some peoples' energy levels and don't enjoy confrontation or debate. I still subconciously find myself choosing them over NTs though.
As a support provider (think well-trained best friend), I have been working with people with typical and divergent styles for a long time, and have developed friendships at many different levels and in many different ways with the people I work with. We have the luxury of spending significant amounts of time together over several years. I get the chance to really KNOW the people I work with. If there is one thing I wish everyone, typical or not, understood, is that EVERYONE has social anxiety of some sort, to some degree. They have different ways to navigate that anxiety, with different results. I find that the key to being with other people is to be able to recognize their anxiety adaptive strategies, and to be able to tell, in the moment, how they are feeling, as evidence by their non verbals. For what it's worth, I hope anyone here can take some of what I have said and put it to use to develop success in their own social endeavors, or simply navigating everyday life. It is a life-time work to learn, and there is always something more to add to the body of one's personal knowledge and understanding, but the key point of understanding that anxiety is an overriding and underlying process that is ALWAYS present in social interactions can be a helpful starting point. This is a subject that is dear to me, so if anyone has any interest in talking more about this, please respond! 🙂
Interesting getting a different perspective. I guess as humans we aren't all so different. Maybe we are in neurotypes, but we may all be more similar than I expected.
Depends on the person and how well I know them. I can converse with my mom (likely has ADHD) effectively enough. Though feels like I just slip into an 'interaction mask' to do 90% of interactions.
For the most part I can only interact with people via something we're doing together. Which is mostly just video games. Even that feels superficial, but that's how it be! Or so I tell mysel.
i was so confused until i saw what sub this was bless your poor soul. (pats head) 😇
Genuinely confused, but thanks I guess?
My closest friend is also autistic, but most of my friends are NT. Small talk is just the price of entry with a lot of people. Lemme give you an alternate definition of small talk: "Talk about safe bullshit unlikely to offend or start a fight until you know the other person well enough to expose your opinions and beliefs to possible criticism or rejection." The substance of the conversation is meaningless. Smalltalk is about gaging a person's body language and temper and reactions and all other manner of nonverbal signal. It's a lot easier if you go in with the understanding that the actual words are meaningless and you barely have to pay attention to them
Yeah, that sounds exhausting. Can we skip that
Seems like a lot of my friends A/ND, so seem to attract/be attracted to them for my friends.
It took me about 3 decades to fully realize that the reason that the majority of the men I dated (and the friends I had) had ADHD is because I, also, have ADHD.
My husband is undiagnosed but he has a lot of ADHD and Autistic traits. He isn't the type of person whose interested in a diagnosis
I find it very frustrating having a life partner who doesn't want to investigate their ND, especially the executive dysfunction. There are so many resources that would make both our lives easier!
Same, but I've learned how to work around his quirks. The start of our marriage was very lonely, because he has a difficult time with anything romance. He doesn't need physical affection, or kind words, or encouragement and thus doesn't believe he needs to give me any of those things, either. However, if I want to hug him he's fine with it. If I ask if I did a good job, he'll say I did (usually) and if I need encouragement I talk to my friends.
We mostly bond by gaming :)
Oh, it's inordinately easier to communicate with neurodivergent folk in my experience, at least. Spend a month around divergents, and one day with a neurotypical has me there like glaring daggers at the typical after they thoughtlessly ran their mouth like "god are you fuckin housebroken, at all?" I never feel talked to around nts, just talked at; and I fuckin hate that.
Yikes.
Yikes yourself; the self-admitted -typical. Are you fuckin housebroken? Do you understand that your seeming necessity to post in a hostile manner would not be taken favorably by the person you're stepping to?
Talking to ND folks is more fulfilling to me as an ND myself, but I like the challenge of talking to NT folks too. I get to put on my “NT-passing voice” and mannerisms and I like to pretend that I’m an actor playing a part
People are people and each one will have some type of unique experience to bring to the table regarding interaction. I have met ND who dislike bugles, I have met NT who enjoy them very much. ND people can have a ton of variance in how they are ND. Some like figuring out social situations and learning to mask, some like to be as much a hermit as possible, some love efficiency or are obsessed with a single topic for years. Yet others just completely miss all social queues and are the most verbally straightforward people.
If you encounter someone with similar interests and/or communication style then they will most likely be more compatible, though chances are that if you are ND it may be easier to find compatibility within the ND community. I myself have a mix of ND and NT friends and the type of friendship I built with them has determined the depth of conversation more or less.
Hmm... bugles the instrument or the snack? We need to know.
Is the one that some people could fit somewhere on their body even though it's not designed for that. Also when used in combination with the mouth could make noise. Is the one most people know of but isn't seen super often. The one about this big (insert picture for reference). You know, bugles
Neurodivergent peapole are much easier to talk to in my opinion. They can always be interesting in their own ways. Some of my best friends in life are neurodivergent and I don't have a problem with that. Just let people be who they are and don't hate on anyone.
ND as a child and during early years of adulthood.
NT during adulthood.
Once I got a sufficiently good grasp of the social rules myself it actually became more difficult to talk to NDs.
I find people with autism or ADHD want to be more straight forward, which can be easier, but at the same time, some people expect you to be super straight and honest with them and that can be challenging because it feels rude or it feels like you're forcing them to conform.
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