638
submitted 1 year ago by JRepin@lemmy.ml to c/technology@lemmy.world

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/5431344

The enshittification of the internet follows a predictable trajectory: first, platforms are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die. It doesn't have to be this way. Enshittification occurs when companies gobble each other up in an orgy of mergers and acquisitions, reducing the internet to "five giant websites filled with screenshots of text from the other four" (credit to Tom Eastman!), which lets them endlessly tweak their back-ends to continue to shift value from users and business-customers to themselves. The government gets in on the act by banning tweaking by users - reverse-engineering, scraping, bots and other user-side self-help measures - leaving users helpless before the march of enshittification. We don't have to accept this! Disenshittifying the internet will require antitrust, limits on corporate tweaking - through privacy laws and other protections - and aggressive self-help measures from alternative app stores to ad blockers and beyond!

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] rickdg@lemmy.world 65 points 1 year ago

The internet will always have many niche places, but overall it can’t escape late stage capitalism.

[-] Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com 54 points 1 year ago

A good search engine would be nice to have (again). How come even duck duck go or other (free?) search engines are also so bad now?

[-] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 36 points 1 year ago

Because operating a search engine is expensive. I personally use Kagi and love it, but that's $10/month for unlimited searches.

[-] fruitSnackSupreme@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

Noooo no more subscriptions please. Can we please go back to one time payments for apps/services?

[-] Lith@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 1 year ago

I understand hating subscriptions but in this case a one time payment would require Kagi to continually gain an increasing number of members for eternity or run out of operating money and shut down. You could hope for something donation-based like most Lemmy instances, but just expecting other users to cover your costs is selfish. There's a difference between asking your users to at least pay what they're costing you and rent-seeking with things that don't or shouldn't cost you a dime to provide. Subscription services have existed for a very, very long time (see: any government that collects taxes), it's only recently and due to greedy trends that they've been becoming a nuisance.

If you want to empower your own sense of privacy and security, you'll need to accept that you've been paying for services with your data or supposed ad views for decades, and some of those services cost money to run.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

I agree that subscriptions for apps becoming the norm is pretty terrible. You should just be able to pay once and use the version you paid for forever, and optionally upgrade to a newer version for a price.

But Kagi is a service. You using their search actively costs them money, so they wouldn't only not gain any money from you after your one-time purchase, but actually lose money.

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com 6 points 1 year ago

Have tried it and seriously didn't see any difference between it and Google or duck duck go...

How come Duck duck go was close to Google when Google was really good, bug now both of them are serving just crap? Are we sites getting better at climbing the ladder?

[-] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Duck Duck Go just uses Bing’s results. (Startpage uses Google’s.) There’s only a handful of search engines actually crawling the web so it doesn’t take much for all the search sites to suddenly suck at the same time.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Speculater@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Perplexity AI has been awesome for me so far, I think someone will take over searches with the current state of the internet. I'm sick and tired of only finding ad filled sites with non-answers on Google.

[-] PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Kagi is great, but is $10 a month.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] dan80@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

What happened to DuckDuckGo?

[-] centof@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

DuckduckGo is basically a frontend for bing with some privacy marketing added to it. It still sends microsoft trackers. They are all so bad because of enshittification.

Google and bing are here.

Abuse users to benefit business customers

[-] steakmeout@aussie.zone 5 points 1 year ago

This is not correct. I think what you maybe referring to is an older dig by Brave and brave redditors when they noticed DDG were allowing MS trackers in specific cases.

DDG explained that it was difficult to resolve due to the way MS engages cross-site tracking but it has since been rectified.

Also, research has proven this was not some shady deal between MS and DDG.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-duckduckgo-gates-track-idUSL1N3792HE

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] FauxPseudo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Well, the thing that gets me all the time is that you can no longer "-" a word. I'm frequently looking for stuff that doesn't contain a word. That feature is completely gone now.

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] GentlemanLoser@ttrpg.network 34 points 1 year ago

We should get paid a portion of the revenue generated by our collective data along with the ability to opt-out completely. If they our data is a commodity to them we should be able to sell it.

[-] nxdefiant@startrek.website 36 points 1 year ago

they can keep my 42 cents and just stop their shit

[-] shasta@lemm.ee 29 points 1 year ago

If you wanna fix this, there needs to be more incentive for people to develop open source software. It doesn't have to be created by individuals either. Organizations and nonprofits can be used to make basic services for the Internet, like utilities. Or this could be a government agency. There is already talks of classifying Internet access as a utility instead of leaving it to private ISPs. This would be a step beyond that but could be done first.

[-] Amends1782@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 year ago

Monetary donations help a ton. Even a few bucks. I always pay for FOSS projects I enjoy and use.

[-] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 29 points 1 year ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

https://piped.video/watch?v=rimtaSgGz_4

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.

[-] ashtefere@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

We need more than this.

We need a way to make sure that the internet can't be owned, physically.

We need some kind of easy to use and fast and robust open source alternate internet that we can all use.

Something that somehow costs nothing to run, that has enough storage and bandwidth for everyone and everything.

Something that has interoperability built in. Every platform should confirm to openid or openauth or activitypub or something like that.

And you know what? we have the technology!

We all have spare devices lying around. Old PC's, old laptops, old phones - they could all be running some kind of node in a distributed platform of some kind of open source AWS equivalent, and let anyone host anything and post anything without getting ad-raped or data stolen.

It's a pipe dream of mine, and I'm sure others... but with a will and a movement we could just take it all back, all at once.

[-] Rouxibeau@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

and let anyone host anything

That's how they'll spin the legislation to ban it:

Pedophiles and terrorists use that service!

Side note -- I wanted to use 'X' instead as a variable above, but Musk ruined that.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 year ago

Search for Locutus, it's very similar to what I've been imagining, only real (well, not yet, it's a project).

[-] kandoh@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago

Wolf 359 was an inside job

[-] vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 year ago

Is that a Star Trek reference?

[-] uskok@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

It is, Locutus was a commander in the battle at Wolf 359.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Battle_of_Wolf_359

[-] KonalaKoala@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

The result you may get then is "I am... Locutus of Enshittification. Resistane... is futile. You life, as it has been... is over. From this time forward... you will service... us" which may make you go "Lock on and file all weapons on full!'

[-] centof@lemm.ee 22 points 1 year ago

Anybody got a TLDW;? Or did all of you just comment on the title and the snippet?

[-] centof@lemm.ee 42 points 1 year ago

Reposting from PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com in Technology@beehaw.org

Here’s an AI outline because this was actually a good talk:

How Platforms Die
    The speaker introduces the concept of platform decay or “enshittification” and how it leads to the death of internet platforms.
        He defines platforms as firms like Uber, Amazon, and Facebook that connect users and business customers.
    He outlines a 3-stage process called enshittification where platforms:
        Are initially good to users
        Abuse users to benefit business customers
        Eventually abuse business customers to only benefit shareholders
    This results in the platform becoming a “pile of shit” that dies.

Facebook Case Study
    He uses Facebook as a case study of enshittification’s 3 stages:
        Initially attracted users by promising privacy protections and custom feeds
        Then broke promises and sold user data to advertisers and flooded feeds with publisher content
        Finally, reduced value to users and fees for publishers to extract all value for shareholders
            This led to an angry user base and brittle equilibrium

Causes of Enshittification
    Lack of Competition
        Weak antitrust enforcement has allowed consolidation across industries
        Companies can use predatory pricing to undercut competitors
        Mergers eliminate competition
            Example: Google relying on acquisitions rather than in-house innovation
    Unrestricted “Backend Tweaking”
        Tech platforms control the algorithms and systems behind their products
        They can arbitrarily change these to alter user experiences
            e.g. Facebook reducing visibility of publisher content in feeds
        Done without transparency, oversight or accountability
    Bans on Reverse Engineering
        Laws like DMCA 1201 and CFAA criminalize circumventing DRM and terms of service
        Makes it illegal to reverse engineer platforms to enable interoperability
        Tech companies use IP laws to prevent modding and adversarial interoperability
            e.g. Apple using IP laws to prevent iOS modding

Solutions
    Strengthen Antitrust Enforcement
        Block anti-competitive mergers
        Break up existing tech giants
    Pass Privacy, Labor and Consumer Protection Laws
        Comprehensive federal privacy laws with private right of action
        End worker misclassification through gig economy
        Apply consumer protection standards to platforms
    Allow Adversarial Interoperability
        Roll back laws criminalizing modding, reverse engineering
        Use government procurement to incentivize open ecosystems
        Appoint special masters to oversee platform legal threats
    Keep Interoperators in Check
        Bind interoperators to the same privacy, fair trading and labor laws
        Determined through democratic process vs corporate policy

Conclusion
    We need to prepare and spread these policy ideas to capitalize on the next crisis
    Efforts are underway to enable a better internet through this approach
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That was such a great video. I highly recommend everybody listen to it (there is no visual presentation so listening is enough). Great content, great delivery.

[-] los_chill@programming.dev 15 points 1 year ago

While I don't know how well it will work, nor if the implementation is even fully possible, I like the idea of Yep.

[-] patchwork@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 1 year ago

I tried to find the video on PeerTube, from the end users perspective I think we should encourage others to choose community over corporate and use platforms like PeerTube to post these videos instead of YouTube (Alphabet).

[-] Touching_Grass@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

To stop enshitification we have to kill all advertising and marketing of products online. Make the net as hostile as possible to people trying to capitalize on it.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2023
638 points (97.8% liked)

Technology

59570 readers
3254 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS