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This is more of me trying to understand how people imagine things, as I almost certainly have Aphantasia and didn't realize until recently... If this is against community rules, please do let me know.

The original thought experiment was from the Aphantasia subreddit. Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Aphantasia/comments/g1e6bl/ball_on_a_table_visualization_experiment_2/

Thought experiment begins below.


Try this: Visualise (picture, imagine, whatever you want to call it) a ball on a table. Now imagine someone walks up to the table, and gives the ball a push. What happens to the ball?

Once you're done with the above, click to review the test questions:

  • What color was the ball?
  • What gender was the person that pushed the ball?
  • What did they look like?
  • What size is the ball? Like a marble, or a baseball, or a basketball, or something else?
  • What about the table, what shape was it? What is it made of?

And now the important question: Did you already know, or did you have to choose a color/gender/size, etc. after being asked these questions?


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[-] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 1 points 8 minutes ago
  • small dull red rubber ball
  • no obvious gender
  • they looked simple, like a Simpsons character. Impression of having a body, but only actually saw their hand
  • table was standard rectangular, wooden affair

My visualisation is quite chaotic, so I mostly see a jumble of overlapping objects then have to choose which one to focus on.

Surprisingly, I had a real hard time visualising the ball rolling on its own. The hand was either pushing it or it was bouncing off of the floor.

Interesting exercise!

[-] owsei@programming.dev 1 points 53 minutes ago

I imagined a red dodgeball on a small brown table. The person was just a thick stick figure and when the ball fell it bounced.

The color and shape I didn't actively choose, they cam be different, but I guess my brain has defaults.

The ball falling and bouncing, however, I had to actively think about, the same way I have to think about texture. I don't have to think about where the ball would stop, or how much it would bounce tho.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 5 points 2 hours ago

As an aphantasia person myself, it is honestly mind boggling that people can visualise things that aren't there. Like that must be so much effort on things that aren't needed.

Suppose it means you can just have a wank and not need porn though.

[-] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

At my desk eating. So the table was my desk and I imagined a white ball that suddenly moved and fell down to the floor. I didn't imagine a person pushing it because that wasn't part of the deal. However when you asked the other stuff then yeah I could imagine up anything else in the same scene.

[-] match@pawb.social 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

i could answer all these questions except the gender, what does that count for

(it was a white reflective crystal ball being pushed off a half-cloth-covered wooden table by a wizard with a tall hood, beard, and tits)

[-] Psythik@lemmy.world 3 points 5 hours ago

What does it mean if I already knew the answer to every question except what the person looked like?

[-] Yeller_king@reddthat.com 1 points 1 hour ago

Same here. I knew it was a man but nothing else. But I had a clear view of a small red rubber ball on a card table.

[-] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 6 points 6 hours ago

I've put some effort into improving my visualization since learning about aphantasia. Upon reading the prompt, I was able to imagine a colorless ball, but with shading to indicate a 3D shape, like a preview render in a CAD program. That's progress! It didn't have a size inherently. For the table, I could picture a white, rectangular plane hovering in a black void. If it was a normal dinner table size, then the ball was something like a softball or basketball.

And that's it. That exhausted my ability to visualize. No person, no push, no motion. Best I can do is to see the white rectangle after the ball has rolled off of the edge.

[-] Juice@midwest.social 5 points 7 hours ago

The ball was red, like a red rubber ball. The person was sort of indistinct from the neck up, it was more like my view was focused on the ball itself and didn't see a face, but it was a man, wearing a white shirt and dark tie, and dark pants. The ball was about the size of a baseball, wasn't completely smooth and shiny, sort of a matte with a slight grippy texture. Table was square, wood, like a medium brown color. The ball rolled off the table and bounced a few times.

All these decisions were automatic when reading the prompt, it's what I saw.

I've just become aware of aphantasia myself, I have a few family members who have it apparently. I was talking to my BIL about it the other day, I was saying how I'm a big fan of reading, but I mostly read nonfiction. He said he doesn't read much, mostly biographies, but fiction doesn't do much for him because he can't picture anything in his head. I can picture everything in great detail when I read fiction. Its interesting because our minds work very differently

[-] samus12345@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

I imagined the same red, baseball-ish sized rubber ball. Not sure why that's my default for "ball."

[-] chrizzly@feddit.org 1 points 1 hour ago

+1 for a red rubberlike ball ... looks like a pattern emerges

[-] glitchcake@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

The ball had no color, the person had no gender or specific form other than vague shapes (the hand and arm being the most visualized), no memory of deciding any specific clothing, the ball was the most fleshed out part where it was the size of a softball. The table was square with vaguely wood coloring. The size was about 2 ft by 2ft maybe 3 ft high.

I did not already know most and I did not retroactively change them. I gave answers as I remembered my visualization.

[-] HipsterTenZero@dormi.zone 2 points 8 hours ago

The ball was blue and kind of glossy, clearly made of plastic.

The person was a scruffy looking femme character in black and white. I just subbed in a character from a comic post above this one.

The ball was about 50% bigger than a baseball.

The table was a round coffee table with that fake wood texture paneling you see on cheap furniture, you know the type? It was a muted brown color.

I did know that I was probably expected to visualize details on the described object, but not the person or table!

[-] vpklotar@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago
  • What color was the ball? Grey.
  • What gender was the person that pushed the ball? No idea, was there even a person? Couldn't really get it to move more than just rolling along.
  • What did they look like? Se above, I've no idea as I couldn't really image a person.
  • What size is the ball? Like a marble, or a baseball, or a basketball, or something else? Like a palintar in lord of the rings (commonly known as a "seeing stone" I believe?).
  • What about the table, what shape was it? What is it made of? Couldn't image a table, it just kinda layed in the emptyness.

TDLR, can't really image stuff and really can't image people, who especially not faces.

[-] uniquethrowagay@feddit.org 7 points 16 hours ago

Wait a second.

  • The ball had no color at all
  • The person who pushed the ball didn't even exist. It just got pushed by some invisible force. Naturally, they didn't have an appearance.
  • The ball was like... Small I guess?
  • The table had no properties at all.

Do people really usually have a more vivid picture in their heads? It's always just concepts with me. I'm confused.

[-] samus12345@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

Do people really usually have a more vivid picture in their heads?

I can't speak for others, but I do if they're concepts I've encountered before. I have "default" visualizations of things that are changed if the description warrants it.

[-] Agent641@lemmy.world 5 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

I also had the "I spent 23 minutes designing this scene in blender" impression of the ball, table, and disembodied hand. The table was made of light grey, the ball was made of light grey, and the hand was made of light grey

[-] Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago

Yeah, same with me. But I knew the ball was pushed and rolled to the edge of the table and then fell, so I feel like I got the most relevant bit.

Tbh I've never been good at visualising faces, recognising people I know, retracing a route I've taken etc. This just feels like one of those things I've never really been great at.

[-] sexual_tomato@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 16 hours ago
  • What happens to the ball?

It slowly rolled toward the edge but stopped before falling to the ground. The path was somewhat eccentric because of the texture of the ball.

  • What color was the ball?

Yellow

  • What gender was the person that pushed the ball?

Male

  • What did they look like?

Green and white track suit (why? IDK), mid 60's Italian, chubby

  • What size is the ball? Like a marble, or a baseball, or a basketball, or something else?

It was one of those foam Nerf bullets, so about the size of a shooter marble

  • What about the table, what shape was it? What is it made of?

It was that black IKEA table where the four metal legs screw into the corners. About 6ft by 3ft.

  • And now the important question: Did you already know, or did you have to choose a color/gender/size, etc. after being asked these questions?

The entire scene sprung into my head at once after reading that someone interacted with the ball

[-] Zozano@lemy.lol 5 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Both my partner and I answered the same.

The ball was the size of a tennis ball, no colour.

The person had no gender or any distinguishing features.

The table was a standard kitchen table.

Neither of us knew what the test was about.

[-] ludrol@bookwormstory.social 3 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

Color - none (I hate not being able to visualise color as I hate doing 3d texturing work in blender and I would like to be able to enjoy it)
Gender - ambigious
Look - lack of info
Ball - unpleasant to touch, got pushed from the top, palm sized, it made a sound, the scene looped before the ball fell off the table, in the next iterations the ball was made of foam, and lacked sound, the camera spunn around the table.
Table - four legs, square, standard height.

[-] qaz@lemmy.world 3 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

A colorless ball is pushed by a non existent person and rolls slightly at a linear speed and then ceases to exist. The ball had no size and I don't remember the table existing.

[-] Skkorm@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago

The ball was red. The gender of the person was unspecified, they were just a hand coming into the scene coming out of a long sleeve green shirt. And the ball was like the size of a softball. What I pictured was a zoomed in part of a table, Brown, but with two zoomed in of perspective for me to know the shape of the whole table.

[-] Eiri@lemmy.ca 7 points 20 hours ago

Huh. The person was off-frame. And I'm pretty sure i retroactively chose a color for the ball.

I think I might have a black-and-white imagination.

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 1 points 14 hours ago

Small tennis sized ball whitish color on a whitish classic rectangular kitchen table. But the table is zoomed in quite much at the start so you only see the overside of it.

No specific gender, very neutral. Like a videogame character with few colors, white mostly. Now the scene is zoomed back to let you see the person walk up to the table.

Did not know. But when i read the others answers mine turned into a 1990 MTV music video where objects are immutable but displayed in lots of different ways, colors, textures, ... I also exploded it when the pwrson touched the ball for fun.

I have worked a lot in video games and scientific visualisation, so the test looks like something I'd make in a 3D engine I guess, least information possible to show the important things, the ball etc.

I can imagine and see about anything, colour, texture, forms, people, movements, but the more details the more zoomed in it gets. I can imagine you as lofi-girl looking at your phone, but expeession like "what the crap did I just read" imagining you reading this for example.

HTH

[-] NicolaHaskell@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago

At first I saw something silhouetted on a card table. Then Action entered the story and I had to choose an adventure after being asked what happened.

I figured how it rolls might depend on who pushed it, and I already knew that. Kevin. Why he did it was less clear. Muscle memory placed us at a table in the canteen. Sitting across from him on any ordinary day, some rolled up piece of napkin or a wad of garbage paper might present itself as a projectile to reach him across the plates and glass between us.

Tonight we were in my kitchen, together there for the first time. I'd moved the table into the corner with both leaves open to make extra space for snacks for the party. We pushed the pretzels and empties aside and sat facing each other off the edge of the table, knees nearly interlocked.

My chin was on my hand and my heart was on the ceiling. We were laughing about something when I noticed the toy baseball on the table. The stairs creaked and the sound of background chatter crept in like a breeze that chilled my spine. He flicked the ball, and it rolled fast off the edge then fell to the floor with a flat thud.

The phone on the wall behind him rang, and I clicked to review the test questions.

[-] BilboBargains@lemmy.world 1 points 15 hours ago

The ball was black, made from rubber, tennis ball size. Only a hand was imagined. No particular colour or gender. The table was made from Elm.

[-] viralJ@lemmy.world 1 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

So I cheated a little, because I'm at a table right now, so I didn't visualise the table just the ball on the table. It was about tennis size, but no texture, kind of light blue shading into lilac. The person pushing it was really just a hand.

So sounds like the only work I did was imagining the ball. I wouldn't say I knew in advance, and I wouldn't say I chose what it looked like. It just appeared and it was light blue.

Edit: the ball started rolling when pushed, but not long enough for me to know whether it fell off the table or not. But the rolling was just a concept. I can visualise things, but I can't visualise motion. Which I only discovered recently.

[-] Fedizen@lemmy.world 1 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Everything was shadows with rainbow outlines, basically.

I think this is a fun exercise, but Idk I'm oblivious to a lot of things excepts shapes and interactions. More telling is my dreams tend to fall into two categories:

Objects without details but with crisp, colorful outlines and dark scenes with illuminated spacces where the more fleshed out areas that are illuminated.

And my ability to imagine is similar- if no lighting condition is given my mental image is shadows with rainbow outlines. If the instructions include lighting the details are more robust: A cat will have a color, a ball will be plain and white and softball sized.

[-] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 points 17 hours ago

Huh. So I imagined the ball on the table immediately as a colorless glass sphere on a white table. Before I even read the prompt to push the ball in my imagination I had already placed my index finger on the ball and was rolling it around it place like a fidgit so I just tapped the ball to push it with my index finger so the person who pushed the ball was me (non-binary) for reasons that I was already interacting with the ball anyway. I imagined this in the first person so I didn't really see myself in full. The ball itself was baseball sized and rolled a short distance, stopped and wobbled after being pushed.

I didn't think about what the table was made of but the ball itself was glass that was smooth and cold to the touch. The table was square, waist height and dining room table sized. The room these objects were in was featureless and visualization was instant upon reading.

[-] Dravin@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Answer:

It was a simplistic grescale scenario devoid of unnecessary features. Think a simple and fast 3D render from the 90s or something. So everything was grescale, the person had no gender (or even features), and pushed a baseball sized sphere on a simple rectangular table made of indeterminate materials. Now I can picture something more detailed if required or desired but my mind focused on the mechanics of it all and kept details to a minimum. Asking for these details afterwards doesn't generate them retroactively.

[-] finestnothing@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

I have complete aphantasia, I can't even visualize a ball or table, or anything else - never have been able to, I see absolutely nothing when I close my eyes and can't visualize or see things in my head at all except when dresming. Same for my Dad. He can apparently visualize an extremely tiny amount (like the night sky but just black + stars, etc) when he's high on thc gummies. I've never been high so idk if it works for me.

It took me 24 years to realize that people actually can actually see images in their head when they think about something or intentionally imagine it. I always thought that phrases like "picture it in your head" or "see in your head what it will look like" were just phrases, not that people actually can see things when they think about it.

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[-] DancingBear@midwest.social 1 points 17 hours ago

The blue ball won’t roll because it was on a table of clean laundry

[-] Backlog3231@reddthat.com 2 points 20 hours ago
  1. Red
  2. An amorphous blob in a humanoid shape doesn't have a gender
  3. An amorphous blob in a humanoid shape
  4. Baseball sized
  5. Round, four legs, wood.

Haha no, I had to fill all that info in as I answered the questions. I mean, you can't literally see the things in your minds eye. They're more concepts.

[-] ludrol@bookwormstory.social 2 points 14 hours ago

The interesting part is that some people are able to see.

[-] RBWells@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago

I don't literally SEE it like I would with my eyes but:

Red ball

Clown, no idea of gender

Again, clown

Ball smaller than tennis ball, bigger than golf ball

The table I am sitting at and looking at right now.

And no, I can and do imagine how things look. It's a different sort of knowing/imagining than actual physical vision or dreaming though. Which led me to be confused about what exactly aphantasia is.

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[-] Randelung@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

red/blue stripes

none

they didn't

small pool ball

generic Simpsonesque brown, but it stopped existing towards the corners.

[-] weew@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I basically fill in the details as the questions were asked. It could have been anything from a billiard ball on a pool table to a rubber ball on a dining room table. Anything unimportant is basically left "unfilled" or generic until it needs detail.

The person who pushed it was vaguely male, again no details unless the question is asked. They may as well have been a featureless mannequin.

[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 2 points 21 hours ago
  • Small push, ball rolls a very short distance and stops
  • No color
  • Male, maybe an extension of myself doing the push
  • I did not visualize a complete person, only a suggestion of a body, and a arm/hand to push the ball
  • Size of two fists together
  • I did not visualize a full table, more like a camera view of a tabletop. Nondescript wood finish.

Did I already know? Sort of... My brain rotated through multiple possible imaginings. It worked forward, then reversed the logic to complete the scene. Nothing was set in stone: My brain decided that the ball would not roll off the table. Why? The ball has an uneven surface, it wobbled when stopping. Why? Because it has a surface like a soccer ball. Why? Because that was the first "look" my brain landed on that answered the question. I recall rotating through different colors and finishes, but after my brain imagined the ball stopping I had to come up with a why.

I do not have Aphantasia, but I've always been fascinated by other people's "normal". I always loved the "is my red the same as your red" thought experiment ever since I was a kid. I have spoken to people that claim to have Aphantasia, and they describe their experience as pretty normal. Instead of seeing an image in their head, they just.... know the thing. Where most people can visualize a scene in their head, Aphantasiacs apparently just feel and understand. It doesn't seem to impair them whatsoever and they seem to be perfectly normal people otherwise. My layman's explanation is maybe it's a vestigial function of the human brain back when we needed more empathetic or intuitive responses to stimuli, similar to the theory that ADHD would have been a benefit during hunter/gather societies.

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this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2024
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