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[-] LunarVoyager@lemmy.world 47 points 11 hours ago

Wow, if only there had been an anti establishment candidate running for president as a democrat in 2016... too bad...

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[-] DiagnosedADHD@lemmy.world 25 points 11 hours ago

I fear it's too late. Unless the party can be taken by force it won't be enough and we only have 4 years. If dems didn't snub Bernie this all probably wouldn't have happened. Our choices used to be two flavors of corporate fascism, now it's far right vs corporate. Dems are better on social issues, but it's not enough.

[-] Tinidril@midwest.social 14 points 10 hours ago

Dems are clearly better on economic issues as well. Not nearly good enough, but better. The problem is that they will only go so far, and they won't talk about it, out of fear of angering their wealthy patrons.

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[-] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 33 points 13 hours ago

Or maybe they should just leave the Democratic party and start a new progressive party? We have less than 4 years, but that's also the most time we'll ever have.

[-] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 13 hours ago

The problem with that strategy is that our democracy uses a first-past-the-post voting system which trends towards a two-party system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo&t=31s

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 11 points 9 hours ago

Then become one of the two parties.

[-] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 9 hours ago

There already are two. We must co-opt one with a populist candidate. The Republican Party was already hijacked by Trump. That leaves the Democratic Party.

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 11 points 8 hours ago

Bernie tried twice, Democrats demonstrated their ability to stop that shit in its tracks. It will not work.

The only solution is for progressives to abandon the Party and start their own to replace it. The US has replaced parties before, it can be done again.

[-] zephorah@lemm.ee 2 points 5 hours ago

Third party doesn’t work. You have to do what trump did, 1 man coup from the inside.

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[-] ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 8 hours ago

Trump tried once and it worked. Neoliberal ideas are entrenched in the minds of Americans. Neoliberalism only allows change to the people in charge of systems as it asserts, incorrectly, that our institutions are flawless. Since neoliberals only consider changing people, it is much easier for a fascist to convince a neoliberal to change the people in society. Where as it is much harder for a progressive or a socialist to convince a neoliberal to enact systemic change or redistribute wealth respectively.

In short, people with neoliberal ideas in their head need to fully internalize neoliberalism as a scam.

Abandoning the Democrats will not result in them being replaced. They will continue to exist by moving further to the right, as Democrats like Chris Murphy have already proposed.

Starting a successful third party is mathematically impossible under a FPTP system. Third party candidates can only be spoiler candidates.

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[-] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 4 points 10 hours ago

We have already seen a third party take over a major party. The current problem with the GOP is because it absorbed the Tea Party.

With the right symbol to rally behind, we can do the same thing to the Democratic party. We need to build the Guillotine Party.

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[-] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 31 points 14 hours ago

They cannot and they will not. Please do not fall for them yanking the football away from you again. AOC and Bernie exist to give you hope and thereby capture your vote for a party that has no intention of ever fighting for the working class in a meaningful way. We need a real alternative but we've given away so much of our collective power (unions) that it's hard to see a hopeful path forward. Organize with your neighbors and start building trusted communities that will fight together when needed.

[-] tatterdemalion@programming.dev 4 points 9 hours ago

Do you mean to say that AOC and Bernie are unknowingly treated as pawns by the Democrat party or that they are knowingly misleading voters into thinking the party leans further left than reality?

I would assume if anything it's the former, and Democrat idealism has lost against the reality that a third labor party cannot take root while first-past-the-post is the rule of the game.

[-] untorquer@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

Would it matter which?

The DNC insiders clearly have no intention of letting the public have a voice in the party. Having a couple socialists around is supposed to secure the vote from the left. Neither Sanders nor AOC(nor other progressives) are leaving the party anytime soon.

It's fair to argue that splitting the party means losing to the right but the current strategy doesn't seem to be working out either.

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[-] BMTea@lemmy.world 17 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

So long as the Democratic Party leadership are reliant on corporate funding, obsessed with American power projection, smitten with Israel, pensive about worker rights and in lock-step with security and intelligence establishment, there is no hope. You will have on one hand a conservative party that shows antipathy and disdain for real liberal norms (Democratic establishment) and a rabid, evil party intent on reshaping America and the world to reflect white Christian nationalist fanaticism (Republicans.)

10 years ago I would have told you that the Dems are playing a dangerous game with their interventionism. Today they consigned 1 million children to starve, be blown to smithereens and die in order to enable the revenge of a leader who is as corrupt as Trump and far more bloodthirsty. Kamala calls Trump a "fascist" and gives Netanyahu a UN veto and 2000lb bounds to drop near hospitals. This is indiciative of a party that is morally rotten and cannot be relied upon to safeguard anyone's rights.

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[-] billiam0202@lemmy.world 113 points 20 hours ago

Kamala raised over $1 billion dollars for her campaign, most of which was from small donors.

If that doesn't tell the Dems they don't need oligarch money, nothing will.

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this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024
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