this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2025
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[–] Xanthrax@lemmy.world 117 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

NPR did a segment on how people from different sides of the spectrum tend to see each other in a negative light. I TRY NOT TO man, but someone yesterday told me to my face, "Those mother fuckers should burn", because his neighbor made a sound complaint about his chickens.

Our city is NEXT TO LA. I'm a farmer, and so is he. I don't understand his worldview at all. He's an immigrant, and he's anti-immigration. His business struggles to compete with larger businesses, but he fears socialism. He brags about freedom of speech and the pursuit of happiness, but he thinks he should be able to control women's bodies. Also, he said a bunch of people should die in a fire. My sister has cerebral paulsy, and if you don't know, a lot of people who died in the fire couldn't run for the same reason. I wanted to spit in his face. I'm a bald, white, male farmer, so people open up to me, thinking they're in good company. I look like a redneck, and technically, I have one. The shit people say is wild. It tends to darken my world view. I try not to focus on them, though, except in ways I can be kind and slowly sway them, hopefully.

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 51 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I used to be baffled by people's behavior in the same way, but recently I've come to understand that a lot of people see the world through the lens of power instead of morals, and they want to see themselves as the most powerful. Socialism means they didn't "earn" their business, and surely they can become the next mogul without it. He doesn't care about other immigrants because he sees himself as above them.

[–] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 32 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I've come to understand that a lot of people see the world through the lens of power instead of morals, and they want to see themselves as the most powerful.

That's one of the most concise ways I've seen it written out. People think reactionaries are stupid; when they say that, they don't understand that conservative morality is wholly based on putting themselves higher in the hierarchy than the people they hate.

It's why they make exceptions for themselves and their loved ones: it's entirely morally consistent that they deserve the exceptions because of who they are.

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[–] IzzyJ@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

You sound like a chill guy for what its worth. Sorry your neighbors a dickhead

[–] passiveaggressivesonar@lemmy.world 28 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Left pushes reading and education right pushes illiteracy and blind faith in the leader but m'authoritatianism

[–] doylio@lemmy.ca 24 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There are many examples of the left pushing blind faith in the leader (see Mao, Kim Il Sung, Stalin)

[–] Kichae@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There are many cases of authoritarians claiming labels that so not reflect their actions or goals, yes.

[–] doylio@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 month ago (6 children)

No true Scotsman fallacy

I'm progressive, but we should not deny the failure modes of progressivism

[–] dethedrus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Adopting the names of left leaning styles of government does nothing to change their actual oligarch and kleptocratic styles is leadership, so that does not apply.

Unless we're to believe that Nazi Germany was somehow just a bunch of misguided socialists...

[–] einkorn@feddit.org 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Well, Elon and German far-right politician Alice Weidel claimed in a recent talk that Hitler was a communist...

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[–] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Soviet Russia wasn't exactly a model of progressivism though— it was a rigidly hierarchical society with extreme wealth disparity.

Same for the other examples.

The NTS fallacy is about redefining terms to cherry-pick data. Those regimes don't match any version of 'progressive' I've ever seen.

[–] lugal@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

There was literally a ~~slip~~ split in the first international. You can't blame those aligning with the lesser influential side for the things the authoritarians did. "The Left" is a far too broad concept to apply the No True Scotsman fallacy to.

Edit: typo

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[–] Rooty@lemmy.world 24 points 1 month ago (10 children)

Ah, this old canard in which radical leftism didn't do anything wrong, no revolutions lead to dictatorships and centrally planned economies were sabotaged by the capitalist illuminati. God forbid we critique leftist ideologies, anyone who does that is worse than a nazi.

[–] octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This comic will be a poor fit when people don't conversationally use horseshoe theory to compare the barely-existent US left (who support improvements that would help all demographics but which are somehow considered radical) to the aggressively hateful US right (who is now pretty sure they will get to see their favorite targets hauled away and deported or imprisoned depending on whether you mean brown people or queer folk).

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[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Where can I get that upside-down blue flag shirt? That's going to go hard while the police are beating me for having a sign on a sidewalk.

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[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I've had people on this platform tell me they were excited for, "the fall of empire." Knowing full well there would be a human cost. So yes, oppression is bad, but if your answer is violence then it's time to parse which violence is acceptable to you because obviously you've already distinguished.

[–] Aabbcc@lemm.ee 14 points 1 month ago (1 children)

All political positions weigh the violence of their positions. Liberals who fight to maintain the status quo are fighting to keep people from enclosed resources like food and housing, with the justification of the profit motive. Whether or not they're right, they're accepting blood for their policy

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[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 month ago

I'm going to let you in on a secret: the maintenance of the empire is also violence, and also has a massive human cost.

[–] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Why can't you just get along with the nazis like we on the enlightened center do

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[–] abbotsbury@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

Horseshoe theory is truly one of my worst enemies, a thought terminating cliche that is zesty enough to feel like a revelation so every midwit loves to trot it out to feel superior. "Opposite things have similarities, therefore, opposite things tend toward the same"

[–] Majorllama@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (8 children)

I don't consider myself a centrist, but I do consider myself between the two parties currently.

I don't like the "both sides are wrong" mentality often associated with centrists. I don't think I am inherently better than either side. I think I am disillusioned by both sides.

I was a Leftist/Democrat for the majority of my life. Then at some point ~8-9 years ago saw the pipeline that leads to radicalized righty thinking and said "fuck that" but when I turned around and looked back on my old party critically I also didn't want to walk back through that door either.

Basically I think both "sides" need to shut up and stop slinging poop at each other. Occasionally you need to listen to the other side. Neither one is always right or always wrong. Some of the moderates from either side can admit this and they hang out in the middle ish with me. But most people just sprint farther to either side when their ideas are challenged.

But since everyone has this "us vs them" mentality over every little thing I don't see communication or collaboration getting any better going forward.

[–] stratoscaster@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago (31 children)

When has the right been correct about things? Lmao

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Rightwingers believe they can and should wield their power to crush their political and business opponents. And if they do this enough times, they'll accrue immense amounts of wealth and power. They should never surrender, never compromise, and always fight to the bitter end, because a long and painful enough campaign will see liberals surrender and conservatives triumph.

In this, they are proven absolutely correct.

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[–] Iceblade02@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yup, fact is a majority of people in thd US agree on many of the most important issue, yet the governing structure seeks to "otherize" people from each other as much as possible in order to prevent meaningful discourse and foster division.

[–] Majorllama@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

Can't have the population working together to take out the elites. They need us good and pissed off at each other so we are too busy to see them taking everything and giving us scraps constantly.

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[–] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

It's funny because Lemmygrad/Hexbear are indistinguishable from Gab.ai, and it's a bunch of liberals on the center who think "free healthcare" is somehow not centrist

Edit; honestly, all you need to do is look at the comments in this thread saying oppression isn't always bad. Lemmy.world never fails to amuse

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[–] socsa@piefed.social 7 points 1 month ago (7 children)

Oppression is bad...

...Unless that oppression is done by the vanguard to protect the revolution. Then the oppression is ok.

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[–] nifty@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (12 children)

Lol, some leftists need to get over the fact that not everyone will agree with their pov, and that doesn’t mean those who disagree are “center” or “liberal”, whatever the fuck they think those labels mean. I am tired of what feels like emotional blackmail by hardliners who insist that their biased opinions are definitive progressivism, or that they are the arbiters of truth or justice. But continue being wrong, it’s just you losing credibility 🤷‍♀️ Truth and justice require a principled and unbiased approach towards morality, ethics and philosophy. I believe people can do better than zero-sum realpolitiks, I guess that’s just my naïve take.

/tiredposting

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