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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by SpaceAce@lemmy.blahaj.zone to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

Two of my coworkers frequently mention shows like "Encounters" or "Ancient apocalypse" or whatever. I'm not the best at debating or forming arguments against these though I do feel strongly that bold claims require better evidence than a blurry photo and an eyewitness account. How do you all go about this?

Today I clumsily stumbled through conversation and said "I'll need some evidence" and was hit with "there's plenty of evidence in the episode 'Lights over Fukushima'". I didn't have an answer because I haven't watched it. I'm 99% sure that if I watch it it's gonna be dramatized, designed to scare/freak you out a little and consist of eyewitness accounts and blurry photos set to eerie music. But I'm afraid I just sound like a haughty know-it-all if I do assert this before watching.

These are good people and I want to remain on good terms and not come across as a cynical asshole.

(Sorry if language is too formal or stilted. Not my native tongue)

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[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 71 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If they take a netflicks show as evidence, I seriously doubt you will be able to convince them otherwise.

[-] SpaceAce@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah. Also it's not my place to raise adults. But a part of me wishes to plant a seed of skepticism. I have a hard time nodding and going along with it. I feel compelled to question it rather than going along with this kind of small talk.

[-] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 21 points 1 year ago

Your answer is right there. Plant seeds of doubt. Ask questions about it. Wow! Did they get footage?! Really? There must be two sources for such a wild thing to have happened! What does Snopes say? Lmfao

[-] Pons_Aelius@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You don't have to convince them but you also don't have to listen either.

You just have to decide that any issues with cutting them off when they start talking about it is worth the effort or if it may cause problems at work.

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[-] assembly@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Are you sure they are taking it seriously? I’ve watched a bunch of Ancient Aliens and it was fun entertainment so long as it is recognized as just entertainment. The main voice in the show makes me fall asleep so I’ve technically had most episodes play across my screen. Me and coworkers make comments regularly that “it’s aliens man” as the reason for things. None of us see it as more than humor and maybe that’s the case with your people.

[-] SpaceAce@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago

I'm not sure but they do talk about it a lot and I have been cornered with things like "did you know that all fighter pilots since the 1960s have had to take an oath of silence because they keep seeing aliens up there, anyway this whistleblower...".

I'm having a hard time navigating these but letting them have their fun while just asking what they believe and why is probably not a bad approach.

Someone mentioned that going through with debunking them is a spoilsport move that's a lot of work to do right and would probably just sour our relationship at work.

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[-] Tamo@programming.dev 37 points 1 year ago

Highly recommend the podcast 'It's probably not aliens' if you want to find out more about the real history of the claims made in these kind of shows, and how the claims of aliens are often rooted in racism and colonialism

[-] SpaceAce@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 1 year ago

Thanks. I've been needing more podcasts anyway :)

That being the case, the excellent podcast Our Fake History talks about aliens in Who Built The Pyramids part III (obviously you should listen to part 1 and 2 first). This episode builds on some other episodes (Sebastian debunks all kinds of other garbage historical myths) and some familiar names tend to come up over and over. Who Are The Magicians Of The God and Was There A Real Atlantis are other episodes that might have some relevance to the KIND of arguments your coworkers are likely making.

[-] jlow@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

EO_Wpe4XsAEPxj_ (not OC +__+)

[-] mdhughes@lemmy.ml 35 points 1 year ago

Ignore it or mock it. I start preaching about Great Cthulhu at people who have loonie beliefs, and let them try to debunk me.

I've got good at reciting "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!" in a high-pitched preacher voice.

[-] fubo@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

Patiently explain that "alien encounters" are just the playful trickery of the Fae, who have been pulling this sort of thing for much longer than anyone was imagining spaceships.

[-] Bizarroland@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

If you want to win a fist fight, bring a rocket launcher.

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[-] ExLisper@linux.community 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You're approaching it wrong. Don't fight them. Fake interest and talk with them to investigate their stupid believes. Try to understand why they believe it, how did they get brainwashed, what defence mechanism they have in place to discredit real science. It can be fascinating experience for you and you will learn a lot about people in general.

[-] Jumi@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Or just stonewall them if you don't want to deal with that nonsense.

[-] ExLisper@linux.community 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes, you can also do it but I really think it's good to investigate people like this a bit. Couple years ago I spend some times watching the craziest videos about alternative science from my country and I think I actually learned a lot. My take now is that a lot of people pushing those things are actually smart and have a lot of charisma but without proper education. They don't understand science because they never learned about so society tells them they are stupid. This creates growing frustration in them and when they stumble on alternative science they suddenly have an explanation: it's not that I'm stupid, the science is wrong. Alternative science is a lot simpler, more intuitive and they can shine there and become some sort of leader. I notices they all tell the same (obviously made up) story: some guy said my invention is stupid but then I showed him how it works and it blew his mind and he was amazed at how great it is. Showing society they are actually the smart ones and everyone else is wrong is one of their main fantasies.

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[-] EmoDuck@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago

One of my coworkers was big into conspiracy and I had one conversation with him trying to understand where he's coming from with all of this. I quickly realized that changing his mind was impossible because he wasn't even talking with me, he was talking at me. After that I just smiled and nodded at everything he said. He's yet to realize this

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[-] Quereller@lemmy.one 28 points 1 year ago

"How to deal with Ancient aliens in the workplace?"

Man, for a second I thought you are talking about older, immigrant co-workers.

[-] RoquetteQueen@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 year ago

Woah woah woah. Hold on a second. There are actually people who take Ancient Aliens seriously?! I thought we all watched it because it was hilariously stupid.

[-] BeefPiano@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago
[-] MajesticSloth@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

I'm with this. Unless it is about work, let people believe what they want. Or else you end up discussing a lot of stuff like religion and politics in a place it doesn't need to be.

[-] redcalcium@lemmy.institute 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You already made up your mind that you won't believe alien stuff, and you don't want to offend your coworkers. Then just treat those alien stuff as their hobby. When your coworkers talk about their hobby, what would you usually do? Certainly not trying to shit on their hobby, unless you don't like those coworkers.

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[-] maxenmajs@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

This is not worth challenging, especially if you are outnumbered. You are not likely to change their beliefs with evidence. The beliefs are flexible and can be endlessly swapped out with new beliefs that demand new evidence. I don't know what you should do but you definitely shouldn't attempt to change their minds like that.

[-] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 16 points 1 year ago

This isn't the hill you want to die on. If they ask for your input, just say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and shrug. Most people follow these things because they're exciting in an otherwise unexciting life, not because they're dedicating their lives to discovering alien life or invading area 51.

If they try to debate you, just say ok and smile. You're not going to logic someone out of a position they didn't logic themselves into.

If you're feeling up to it, you could just tell them about the invisible dragon in your garage, or the teapot that's currently orbiting the sun.

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[-] Fizz@lemmy.nz 15 points 1 year ago

You should pick your battles. Think pretty carefully about what you actually want to debate/pushback on because it's exhaustive and requires you to research the topic. It's probably a waste of your time doing the research to debunk these alien sightings since a new one pops up every few months.

[-] SpaceAce@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 year ago

Yeah. Maybe I should ask general questions but not push back on anything. Like "What about this episode convinced you?". "Do you think that's enough evidence or would you like to see something more?". "Wow, so why isn't this all over the news, do you think?"

Or is this line of questioning too obvious?

[-] cabbagee@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 year ago

Those questions are just going to open a can of crazy. Some battles aren't worth fighting and in the workplace you're going to see a lot of them.

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[-] DeadNinja@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"Stilted"?

You sir, are one of those fucking amazing people who profusely apologize for not being a native English speaker and then blurt out 37 paragraphs of perfect English.

You have nothing to be ashamed of - your English is better than a lot of them native speakers ! And always remember this :

"You are speaking English because that is the only language you know; I am speaking English because that is the only language you know. We are not the same."

And as to your original question - if I ever ask them "what evidence did you see which proves X happens?", I have almost always been hit with the reply, "Oh yeah? What proof do you have that says X does not happen???". And then I tell them the anecdote of the Invisible Dragon by Carl Sagan. Look it up if this is new to you, and for a more formal treatment, check out Karl Popper's theory of Falsifiability.

I have personally converted at least one conspiracy theorist to being an Agnostic. So I know it works. Try them out, it's fun.


And I also am not a native English speaker to be honest :-)

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[-] Joker@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 1 year ago

I mean, if you are so disinterested in the conversation that you would ask the internet how to have your side of it rather than check out the show, maybe you just shouldn’t have that conversation. Change the subject or tell them you’re not into it. Who cares if they believe there are aliens?

Personally, I find it impossible to believe there isn’t other intelligent life out there. It’s not because of blurry photos or spooky stories. It’s that the universe is just so vast and there’s so much we will never understand about this place we are in. How can it not be out there? Frankly, it takes more faith to believe there isn’t something.

With that perspective, I do occasionally find those shows interesting. Not because it’s proof of anything but because it’s fun to watch and wonder what it is. It doesn’t have to make you a believer or a non-believer. There’s obviously something in the videos. What it is and where it comes from is entirely different. It’s just entertainment for people who like to indulge in a little speculation.

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[-] yenahmik@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

I used to watch this YouTube channel ~5 years ago, called Lets Chat, where a guy would go to different places and have conversations with people about their beliefs.

Digging through my history, it looks like the technique is called Street Epistemology. It's basically a way to understand deeply held beliefs without coming across rudely. Here's a site I found that explains the process well

[-] Saigonauticon@voltage.vn 12 points 1 year ago

For the sort of thing you describe, unless it affects the operation of the company, I just ignore it. I don't feel the need to correct other people's beliefs unless it's getting in the way of my work. Or socialize at work, beyond a purely practical amount.

If it's mandatory that I socialize with them for some reason, and they cannot abide people who don't believe everything they do, I try to change the subject to something where there's more common ground. If they force the matter, and leaving is not permitted, I just lie -- if they're being that dense, it's not like they value my true thoughts much anyway.

[-] Nachorella@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 1 year ago

This might sound like a crazy answer from a crazy person but hear me out. If they are good people and you're somewhat familiar with them, just call them kooks, say that shit's all made up and dismiss it. just don't be aggressive about it, people can still be on good terms without agreeing on everything. Just be like "nah man, no way that happened these shows are just people who want attention, if it was real there'd be better evidence and it'd be all over the news."

I honestly think this is the best way to go, you're engaging them honestly, attacking the show, not them. And so long as you don't get hung up on their response or 'winning the argument' I think you can all remain on good terms. How you go about this obviously depends on how friendly you are with them but if they're good people they'll still be your friend even if you're too dumb to see the truth about aliens.

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[-] dustyData@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Have fun man. Start coming up with even crazier theories and one up them to the extreme with ever bolder madness, get creative. "Pfft you think Japan it real? They don't want you to know that we bombed them out of existence and we gave the country to the Venusians! It was all part of Reagan's contract in exchange for more nuclear power, but he was a lizard…"

[-] SpaceAce@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 1 year ago

The Italian military has been simulating Japan with AI for centuries now. The Italians took one of their own words, tiramisu, and made up a whole language from that.

It's no coincidence ちらみす looks like spaghetti. They literally made this alphabet by throwing spaghetti at the wall and then started borrowing evolved bone-script from the Chinese when they got bored with pasta-to-wall terrorism!

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[-] macracanthorhynchus@mander.xyz 11 points 1 year ago

Carl Sagan wrote a book, The Demon Haunted World, which is all about why people get sucked into nonsense like ancient aliens, and how to deal with it.

[-] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago

You can't reason people out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into.

Just say you're not interested in their weird hobby.

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[-] ehxor@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago

If they didn’t use reason and logic to make up their minds, you don’t stand much of a chance using them to change their minds.

[-] hardcoreufo@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

I went to training with coworkers from another site. They were raving about some "documentary" that said the government had alien technology. They kept trying to get me to watch it all week but I just kept saying I forgot.

In reality I watched about 10 minutes and it just set up these alternative history hypothese then reenacted them. It was moronic so I just steered the convo to football or whatever to get them to shutup.

[-] Mothra@mander.xyz 9 points 1 year ago

Just ignore and avoid the topic the best you can. Don't confront. Just go, "ohh ok" and move on. Pretend you need to go to the toilet or that you have something else to do if you can't break free from the conversation.

It's about as futile as trying to convince a religious fanatic that their views may not be ideal for everyone; you just don't. Ignore and avoid.

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[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 7 points 1 year ago

Start attributing your local cultural heritage to aliens. That fancy building? Aliens.

It may force your coworkers to clarify their statements to racism, but then you can hide behind the "but how do they steel beam?" logic.

[-] 0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago

Did you know my grandfather was an alien? That makes me 1/4 alien and it's the reason I have x-ray eyes.

[-] Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 year ago

Enjoy the shows as fiction and have conversations with the mindset of "but wouldn't it be cool if that was real?". Sometimes it's good to escape reality and pretend for a while. And it sounds like this would help you build a good rapport with your colleagues.

[-] Remmock@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

https://youtube.com/@miniminuteman773?si=AKDf4v0VQ4xR9KrQ

Dude is legit entertaining while debunking this nonsense. You’ll learn a lot not just about the science, but about how they constructed their faulty arguments and where to push to make them fall apart like playdoh.

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[-] MelodiousFunk@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

"I was unsure of whether I could trust y'all with this info, but after talking with you a bit I think it's time to come clean." And then start talking about Second Impact as if it happened IRL and not in a famous anime. (Spoilers for Evangelion in the link.) There's already in-lore conspiracies and coverups to use as talking points.

[-] otter@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I agree with others that it might not be worth it

If you do want something though, to pass the time or whatever, this is a pretty good video on how to address them

Ultimate Conspiracy Debunker - Kurzgesagt (typing on the bus, sorry for mispelling it)

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[-] SHamblingSHapes@lemmy.one 4 points 1 year ago
  1. your written English is great

  2. conversation does not need to be debate. What these people really want is to talk. Ask questions, like "what evidence did you find most convincing?" Odds are they won't even notice you didn't agree with them, they just want to be heard.

  3. there doesn't need to be a conversation at all. Drift out of these sorts of conversations or change the topic. I can't imagine a scenario in which debating the existence of aliens with a coworker would be worth my energy.

[-] blargerer@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjhctHjnIbUgvin0ZlrsHg87l_k1RrKdf This playlist is very long, but this is a historian dunking on any sort of ancient alien or lost ancient technology theories.

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[-] livus@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

@SpaceAce this is firmly in the "I could teach you, but I'd have to charge" category. You're not their mother or their teacher so if they want to believe nonsense then let them.

There are some documentaries debunking Ancient Aliens though.

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this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2023
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