this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2025

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US Authoritarianism

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Study History and You’ll Never Spend a Day Working Because it Doesn’t Support Capitalism (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by alphanerd4@lemmy.world to c/usauthoritarianism@lemmy.world

40 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Ngl this is what every single one of you fucking liberals calling me out about my substandard research practices makes me feel .

—— And you know like to be clear I am saying that as like that’s a Me problem. I need to figure out how the fuck to be able to accept criticism or none of this is gonna get to a point where it’s worth Jack.

all 41 comments

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[–] Darkard@lemmy.world 125 points 2 weeks ago

This is why the right wing loves the poorly educated.

[–] Starbuck@lemmy.world 96 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I had a similar run in with a friend who grew up in mid-western PA who had never heard of red lining and refused to believe that something like that happened in this country. He hopped on the crazy conspiracies train around the time COVID and I haven’t talked to him since.

I genuinely think that a lot of these “great again” folks don’t understand what things were like “back then” and that all this social progress actually happened. It’s sad.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 35 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

You don't need to worry about whether your thoughts are accurate. These people quite literally don't know how anything works. They're at the "ignorant enough to be dangerous" part of the dunning-kruger curve. Intelligent people don't solidify opinions about topics they've never researched, and know nothing about. They don't consider Fox News or their social media bubbles as research. They change their opinion based on evidence.

I don't think I've ever seen someone on the MAGA spectrum of mental illness produce anything resembling a sound argument.

[–] BenReilly97@lemmy.world 31 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

"Jim Crow? You mean like the character from Dumbo?"

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 11 points 2 weeks ago

Yes, literally!

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Lead character from cult film classic "The Crow"

[–] CH3DD4R_G0BL1N@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago

Jesus Christ that’s Jim Crow!

[–] BenLeMan@lemmy.world 28 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

"That's lEfTiST hiStORy"

[–] RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com 10 points 2 weeks ago

AKA CRT

[–] Monstrosity@lemm.ee 25 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Sounds like a classic, white washed Ivy League educational experience for the likely nepo-baby NYT reporter.

[–] Septimaeus@infosec.pub 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

white washed Ivy League educational experience

The education at Ivies isn’t significantly different from the rest of higher ed. They even use the same cafeteria vendors. The primary difference is tuition.

[–] Sarcasmo220@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 weeks ago

And the tuition is a way to exclude (with few exceptions for publicity sake) "the poors" from entering. This way the capitalist elites can keep living in their bubbles and use it as a means of making connections to further their businesses

[–] stringere@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago

The other likelihoods being poor middle/high school history programs/teachers due to decades of neglecting our educational system and devaluing teachers.

[–] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 2 weeks ago

New York Crimes

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

is that interview actually out there? can i see it?

[–] Godric@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

No, they surely would not lie, especially Online! Online is free of lies, don't you know??

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago

i don't believe you the nyt would never do tha

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca -3 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I had a discussion with a leftist - again, this is true - and told them about the famines in the Soviet Union and Maoist China. Said they'd have to independently verify that famines happened in socialist countries because it sounded like I was pushing a specific agenda.

[–] Tja@programming.dev 2 points 2 weeks ago

My experience with ml users is they either deny it because this one book somewhere, or they say famines are good for the economy (yes, line goes up argument).

For context I'm European so extreme left already of any political patry in the US. As in "universal Healthcare and free education" radical.

[–] alphanerd4@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Well you can always chat with the entire other school of thought for socialists: “Yeah, what you’re laying out about genocide is accurate. It was a FAMINE. That is what a Famine means. Now use that methodology to analyze the societal context and motivations of any other famine that doesn’t rely on testimonials from Nazis as the core of its evidence.”

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago

It was famines caused be authoritarian leaders doing crazy things because they believed their ideology was more important than science and pragmatism. They were wrong and millions of people starved.

Socialism can become authoritarian oligarchies very easily they just have to put a thin coat of paint of ideological rationalization on it. The failures central planning in a socialist system has the same effect as the failures of the central planning of a small group of oligarchs in a capitalist system.

The rational solution is the dismantle the oligarchy, not replace the oligarchy with another oligarchy.

[+] TrickDacy@lemmy.world -6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Sounds super real and like it definitely happened

[–] kyle@lemm.ee 12 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Whenever I see a story that seems far fetched, I try to think about it more broadly.

Was it a NYT reporter who hadn't heard of Jim Crow laws? Maybe, could've been a nobody intern who grew up in the South. Besides that, I fully believe this conversation has occurred with an ignorant person, if not a NYT reporter.

[–] Zizzy@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I grew up partially in the absolute middle of nowhere texas. We still learned about jim crow there.

[–] kyle@lemm.ee 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Oklahoma here, we definitely learned about it too.

But take like the Tulsa Race Massacre. I grew up hearing it called the Tulsa Race Riots, but I don't recall ever being taught about it in school, I heard about it from my parents. I still didn't really know much about it until several years ago. I literally grew up in Tulsa lol.

Edit: not to say I believe the story. But I think it's possible. I heard about the Massacre from my stepmom, who did a paper on it in college (mid 80s), and apparently had trouble finding a lot of different source material at the library.

[–] Don_alForno@feddit.org 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That doesn't mean it's not true. From my school days, I remember heated shouting matches with other students who insisted that our teacher definitely never ever taught us "specific thing X" which they definitely did the week before, while I knew for a fact that the person I was arguing with had sat one row behind me in that very class.

[–] Zizzy@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

My, admittedly very arcane, point was that its more of a social issue rather than a school curriculum issue, and so when you say ots because of the south and implying they werent ever attempted to be taught, it puts pressure on the wrong people. I actually think the OP likely happened

[–] GoodEye8@lemm.ee 3 points 2 weeks ago

It can also be a curriculum issue. For example, and for clarity sake I'm not American, I could say I was taught socialism in school. Some might call it a pretty progressive topic to teach, however if we get into the details it comes out very differently. What I was taught wasn't socialism but rather the vague history of socialism culminating with the idea that socialism doesn't work. More specifically I was taught there was this guy called Marx (and Engels) who came up with a labor theory (no actual information about what the theory contained) . Marx died before he could finish his work. Engels finished some of his work but Marx's theory was continued by Lenin. Lenin started the USSR and then Lenin died. Stalin took over, then we got WW2, cold war, Stalin died, era of stagnation, Afghan war, Chernobyl and the fall of the USSR - clearly socialism doesn't work.

Nothing factually wrong was taught but also nothing about actual socialism was taught. I'm sure the same could be done about Jim Crow laws, where you acknowledge something happened but then clearly gloss over all the horrific details.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

who grew up in the South

I would expect somebody who grew up in the South to be more likely to have heard about Jim Crow than somebody who grew up in some supermajority-white place like the mountain west or whatever.

[–] kyle@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago

My thinking was the people in the South would be more likely to have learned a "toned down" version, and less likely to remember details.

Definitely just my personal experience from living in Oklahoma, idk if like Alabama or Mississippi are the same.

[–] 0ops@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago

supermajority-white place like the mountain west or whatever

Hey that's where I'm from. But even I remember touching on Jim Crow laws in grade school, and coming back to it in more depth in highschool. So I don't mean to be the "nothing's real on the Internet" guy, but I do find it hard to believe that the term "Jim Crow" didn't even ring a bell for the reporter. But idk, there's lots of stupid people in high places, so I won't doubt that it happened either.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

But there is a very specific agenda here. So say to people who already think that the NYT is bad, that the NYT employs people without even the slightest understanding of history. I highly doubt this happened.

[–] Mortoc@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Don’t downvote people for being skeptical on the internet folks, we want to encourage it.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Am I doing that? Seems to me like that's getting done to me.

[–] kyle@lemm.ee 4 points 2 weeks ago

Correct, it's good to be skeptical

[–] Mortoc@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah I was reacting to you getting downvotes.

[–] Zexks@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Maybe your trust of this institution is severely miss placed.

https://www.techdirt.com/2024/10/28/ny-times-gets-230-wrong-again-misrepresenting-history-law-and-the-first-amendment/

When I went looking for this there’s MANY more.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world -4 points 2 weeks ago

Yes if I don't believe something very extreme, I must believe its precise opposite. NYT is my God, and all.

[–] Aqarius@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

...So, you think her story is too unbelievable, that the NYT would never do such a thing, and that she made it up to push a specific agenda?

Hm...

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

Yes, I too am sure of every idea I have