No Stupid Questions

Personally, I think either option is valid. Not everyone is cut out for the fight, and especially if you have children, it makes sense for a parent to do what is best. I wouldn’t blame anyone one bit for leaving. I honestly haven’t created an exit plan this far, so I might just end up staying and fighting.

There's no single correct answer, and as with most issues there are a lot more than two sides. You already implied a third one here - fleeing without being a coward. Question: assuming you aren't right now a low-paid doctor in a free clinic providing healthcare to people who can't afford it... do you feel evil for that? Is there any reason to beat yourself up for not doing that? Truth is we aren't all suited to actively and effectively fight the system, any more than we're all suited to be doctors or lawyers or athletes. You're allowed to make life decisions that suit your abilities and personal aspirations without crucifying yourself for not being a saint.

I'm staying, i'm a white male i'm low on the impact list. But I have citizenship in the UK and I am considering a trip to Scotland to see what the challenge of a relocation entails.

If I could leave I'd be gone. I owe this country nothing.

For me it's a mix of different factors. Is there a place where I am better equipped to fight for what I believe in? Where I can be more effective in creating the world I want to live in? Maybe even a place from which I can more actively advocate and fight for the future I want for the place I just left?

I come from a family of refugees, immigrants and political prisoners. My dad fled his country with his family in the 70s, my mum's parents did the same in the 50s. Others didn't leave their homes, some survived, others did not. Every single one of my 19 cousins can call at least two countries their home.

I just left the US 5 weeks ago. I was a trans immigrant with a disabled, trans wife and an EU passport. Yes, part of me wants to fight the continuous fascist power grab happening right now in the US, which has become my home, but I'd be in a very precarious situation where just keeping myself safe enough to fight another day would occupy a lot of my capacities. Getting myself arrested and (best case) deported, wouldn't really be helpful. Returning to my country of origin allows me to fight the same trends and politics from a significantly more secure position. It allows me to financially support US organizations I believe in, in ways I couldn't while living there myself. And it's not like the same people aren't trying to achieve the same goals with varying success all across Europe.

But when we moved back here, I also decided that this would be it. This is where I am taking my stand and where I will fight for my future with all means necessary. Be that against internal threats or external ones. Not because this place or it's people is somehow more important to me based on the coincidence of my birth, but because there is no place where I personally have more resources, better support and a stronger starting position. Moving somewhere else to avoid the conflict would leave me with fewer resources and less ability to stand up for my beliefs.

I don't think there is anything cowardly about fleeing your country when you're not safe there. Being an immigrant, let alone a refugee is really fucking hard sometimes. Leaving your home and everything and everyone you've ever known behind, especially if you do so without knowing if you'll ever be able to return, can be incredibly traumatic. Starting over in a new place, even under the best circumstances, is scary, exhausting and often deeply isolating. We all have different priorities, strengths, weaknesses, needs and capacities and only you can decide based on those, what the right move is for you. Don't let someone who hasn't risked their life while staying tell you you are a coward for leaving or someone who hasn't ever left their home tell you you're stupid for staying.

I have two multi-racial disabled family members I care for. Even if I could leave the country, they couldn't - very few nations allow the disabled to immigrate.

I'm here till the fight is done.

To me, nationality is just a roll of the dice. You shouldn't have to stay somewhere just because you were born there. You wanna leave? By all means, go have your life's adventure.

And immigration should be widely supported in terms of higher ethical standards. Countries who make it difficult for people seeking to find a comfortable place to live is more immoral than a person seeking a new home.

This is apparently what the US wants. My family is seriously looking into moving to a different country. We don't want to be stuck in the new modern nazi party country.

For me this entirely revolves around why why's and how's when it comes to how that affects the ethics of it.

With a defense type scenario I'd likely have a hard time looking at myself in the mirror if I just left and essentially allowed my home to be taken.

If we are the aggressor because we stepped in some horrible turd electorally then they chose this and therefore no thanks bye i'll send a postcard.

While you are staying, your productivity is fueling the economy, and the taxes you pay go to the government you dislike. If you flee, that's a big economic difference you're making over the years. I guess if you fight symbolically but non-pragmatically and get arrested, they have to feed you and house you in a prison which will cost a little extra, but compared to your non-productivity that's just a small bonus. Fleeing also means you get to proactively contribute to competitors and reward them for being a better place to live, which in a way doubles your economic impact. There's a reason the Berlin wall was built and North Korea executes 3 generations of the families of defectors. People are valuable, and they can't afford to lose too many of them.

On the other hand, if your threshold for fleeing is too low, there are no competitors to support, because every country has their issues, and some may be at a risk of the same developments as the country you're fleeing from, making it a pointless exercise. And your loved ones could be essentially hostages that can be used to make you stay.

So it kind of depends, but at least the cowardice argument seems pointless to me. Pragmatic small-scale effectiveness tends to beat symbolic perfectionism at making an impact.

I always hated the "cowardly" argument.

Who gives a flying fuck what others think? Fuck that egotistical bullshit.

Do what you can to survive. That's more important than worrying about how brave others think you are.

You can always help overseas where you're safer.

Whether to flee or fight isn't a very useful distinction, I think. It's a false dichotomy.

Fighting someone or fighting for something in a way that risks your life just isn't a very smart way to fight. Obviously run when your life is at stake. When you're safe, fight.

RUN! I don't know why people get so attached to a piece of land, especially when it can cost you your life. They are artificial lines created on the globe. The real question, is where to run.

I think one has to decide if their country is worth fighting for or not.

It's a paradox – for the individual it's better to leave, but migration en masse would be unsustainable both for the source country and for the recipient country. You simply cannot fit the whole of a country like Somalia into a country like Denmark. This is why I personally am an advocate of foreign aid, and that includes political.

I've spent my whole life fighting for progressivism and my right to exist as a trans immigrant. My partner and I have been preparing to leave for a year. We're personally done, see y'all on the other side

Now you understand what it means to flee your country. It's never an easy decision.

I'm just so grateful that so many great scientists fled nazi germany. Also that those who stayed behind (this is controversial and not known for sure) hindered and delayed Germany's nuclear weapons program.

Eventually you’ll run out of places to run to.

I would need more to defend than just a Flag or Land area. I'm not killing myself or others for some line on a map. I.e. would it cause massive suffering for people if the war is lost?

If you're trans: Start making plans to flee. You don't have to carry them out right now. But do get a passport, even if it has to have your deadname. Canada or Mexico probably wouldn't accept a US refugee just for being trans right now, but that will change in the future.

If you're an immigrant, or even a permanent resident: It's unsafe in the US right now. I wouldn't fault you if you left today. However, everyone's circumstances are different. Maybe you want to stay and support your spouse and kids who are citizens, and you're willing to risk your life to do it. It depends on the circumstances.

Anyone else: Stay and fight.

I have thought about emigrating after I get my bachelor's, but I don't think I will.

My family has been here for generations. Why should I have to leave when the reactionaries are the ones that suck? Besides, where would I go? Ultimately, nowhere can guarantee safety from the rise of authoritarianism and climate change.

Canada and Scandinavia will probably weather climate change alright, but they'll have instability on their doorstep, especially if mass migration becomes a thing. Iceland? New Zealand? Switzerland? Probably all decent choices, to be honest.

I could also become a mountain man out a remote northern wilderness, living as self-sufficiently as possible while working remotely via satellite internet. Or, I could stay where I am and try and do as much good as possible, whatever that looks like.

The US is a massive place. Yes the federal govt can suck but state and local governments are where you see the real day to day effects like roads, local businesses, utilities and parks.

Sit in on a meeting (a lot of stuff is streamed thanks to covid). Get to know the people in office in your area and what they stand for. If you want make your voice heard however you choose and give them some perspective on how an upcoming decision effects you. You can vote wisely and build a community with them from the bottom up.

You can have a surprising level of influence just by reminding people that voters exist and care enough to give input now and then.