this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2025
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[–] Dearche@lemmy.ca 7 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

This can work in some places (mostly looking at the prairies), but will do close to zero in others (like eastern Canada+BC). The simple problem is that the land the house is built on is often worth something like 80% the cost of buying property. The cost of a new house can be zero, but that will do little to help people afford new homes. Only slightly better than the tax cuts PP is proposing, which will have just as weak of an effect helping those who don't already own six houses.

The solution is to use the land we already use for homes more efficiently, and the only way to do that is to build condos and apartments. Make them mixed use and you can add the rental fees of a grocery store and several other services to the mix to subsidize the cost even further. A single grocery store that'll take up half the ground floor paid something like a million in rent a year, and that was before COVID. Add a convenience store, a couple fast food restaurants, a bar, and a dentist or salon, and you've got a mini-mall that'll rake in several million in rent that has a captured clientele in those that live above and near them. And that number will be in the hundreds for a 30 story apartment in the space of half a city block, since there'd be more than ten units per floor, even if it only has two-four bedroom units.

Such buildings can't be built in a factory, even partially. Not if we want them to last more than ten years, since that's the problem with the quick condos China tried to build.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

You might not be able to pre construct the whole building, but there's a lot of new technology out there that pre builds very large parts.

I've seen 15m pre fabricated concrete walls placed with cranes before.

There's a lot we could probably do like that which would speed up build times.

[–] Dearche@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 hour ago

If I remember right, that was basically what they did to make commie blocks.

If the building isn't too tall, maybe 5 stories or less, that is proven to work, though I don't know about the quality, at least it's durable. But I strongly doubt that it would work for skyscrapers. I don't think there's any way to get beyond single large support struts to go throughout the entire building, and concrete walls feel too heavy to be used. Maybe prefab concrete floors could work, but I don't work construction.

[–] Policeshootout@lemmy.ca 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Is the only thing that's going to fix the housing crisis actually reducing the cost of homes? And nobody actually wants that to happen.. so...

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Nobody who owns a home wants that to happen*

[–] Kichae@lemmy.ca 2 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

My home price has doubled since Covid, but so have all the others around me. The gains are fake. The only benefit is to the real estate agent, and my ego.

Drive the prices into the ground.

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 3 points 23 hours ago

Because the entire economic system inherently benefits entrenched Capital.

This game of Monopoly was decided before we were born.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 days ago

Even moreso, those who own other people's homes.

[–] Quilotoa@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I had a friend do this. It's a great house and the process went very smoothly.

[–] Bobble7@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It's a sensible way to do it. Modern prefab doesn't necessarily mean the house is entirely built offsite and then dropped in place. It just means that more of the assembly is done in a controlled, precision, effficient environment (a factory) and then assembled on site with less time and expense. It means more houses, faster and cheaper. Which is what we need.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 points 14 hours ago

Sears company has prefab homes still standing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Modern_Homes

[–] shaggyb@lemmy.world -4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The answer to this has always been no, everywhere.

[–] troyunrau@lemmy.ca 16 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Not quite true. Many homes in Canada literally were ordered from the Eaton catalogue. Truck arrives with all the components, you assemble it yourself. We used to do these things.

[–] Bobble7@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 days ago

Yeah. We actually already do prefab with roof trusses. They are precision manufactured in a factory, shipped to the site and then assembled. This is extending the same principle to other home components like wall assemblies.

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Yeah, but it won’t fill the housing gap.

Those houses still have to be assembled somewhere.

The more likely solution is a big fibre optic rollout and getting all information workers out of the cities.

[–] Bobble7@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

They would be assembled on site.

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yeah; in most of the places where there are housing issues, the problem isn’t skilled labour to build houses or a lack of building materials (although those can become issues) — it’s the cost and availability and accessibility of land. There’s no “on site” to assemble them on.

[–] Bobble7@lemmy.ca 2 points 23 hours ago

the problem isn’t skilled labour to build houses

Can you provide any references for this? My naive web searches find that most sources say there is a significant skill labour shortage, so if you can provide sources which I can learn from that would be helpful.

it’s the cost and availability and accessibility of land

Housing shortage is a multi-dimensional problems with what you mention here included. One plank in the BCH platform that attempts to address this is the release federal lands for new housing. I suppose it will remain to be seen how that works out, if Carney is elected.

[–] turnip@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

We should give tax credit for wfh too perhaps.

Except our government doesn't actually want housing prices to fall, or for there to be less people in the city.

[–] Arkouda@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

More people should be living in the city so the wilderness can remain the wilderness. Build up, not out.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 hours ago

I'm kind of on the fence with your opinion. Living in Montreal I've seen some old broken down neighbourhoods being turned into new condominium cities, but without enough city/social planning. (Griffintown) This caused incredible problems for the local infrastructure, commerce, and services. Sewers, aqueducts, electricity, roads, public transports, kindergartens, schools, medical clinics, etc. The concentration of people increased too much, too fast.

Instead, I think we need to increase density slowly, but spread it out over the city. Not everyone needs to live in 300 sq ft closets downtown. Having smaller apartment buildings with 4/5 storeys replacing old duplexes and triplexes in adjacent neighborhoods, with units that are better adapted to family life with several rooms and enough space to move around could be even more beneficial. And include social housing mixed in with regular housing would have a positive impact as well. But, that's a pretty Montreal-specific scenario. I know in Toronto it's very different and their needs are different, for example.

[–] turnip@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

The Vancouver special was made illegal in the late 80s for seemingly no reason. Every municipal has tons of bureaucracy on what can be built, likely in order to stifle new development and to raise home values.

This will succeed only in so much as the Liberals through Brookfield will take a chunk of profits. Which is fine, if it took a bit of corruption to wipe out municipal bureaucracy then its still a win for the poor.

I was also in favor of Doug ford getting kickbacks for opening up greenbelt, I don't see how we do 4% annual population growth without actions like that.

[–] CowsLookLikeMaps@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

The greenbelt doesn't even need development. The province's own report said we just need to make better use of our land. In too much of Ontario for too long, zoning has restricted most homes to be inefficient single family housing and suburban sprawl far from peoples' jobs. We need missing middle housing, duplexes, triplexes, fourplexes, and greater density.

[–] turnip@sh.itjust.works -4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Ford won't do like Eby because his voters will revolt. Opening greenbelt is the only way to get houses built sadly, though I agree that is the logical thing to do.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

The green belt is an important wildlife corridor and it helps to protect surface water and ground water recharge areas. The benefits of a few mcmansions built in a desireable area are not worth the long term consequences of destroying the greenbelt.

Lets stop kicking the can down the road and finally address the factors that caused this crisis like sprawl and zoning.

[–] turnip@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 days ago

If it could be done I agree. But voters won't allow it, unlike BC they aren't progressive, they vote Ford.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago

Opening greenbelt is the only way to get houses built

How can you possibly think this??

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I was also in favor of Doug ford getting kickbacks for opening up greenbelt, I don’t see how we do 4% annual population growth without actions like that.

Going to assume this was awkwardly worded because why would you ever think that politicians getting kickbacks is in your best interests?? That's pants-on-head.

What in the world does the greenbelt have to do with housing? Do you think lack of space to build is anywhere on the roster of issues standing in our way??

[–] turnip@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 days ago

I think land values are extremely high due to a lack of available land relative to demand. Exacerbated by sprawled zoning that nimbys have fought tooth and nail against.

[–] Bobble7@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Honest request: Explain to me how Brookfield is involved

[–] turnip@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

They are heavily invested in prefab homes. Which will help us bypass municipal laws, and build architectural style to maximize floor space with relatively cheap construction costs, like the Vancouver special used to be.

[–] Bobble7@lemmy.ca 1 points 23 hours ago

They are heavily invested in prefab homes

That could have been because they believe prefab homes are a good industry to invest in because they saw the potential to solve the affordable housing crisis that afflicts populations around the world. That doesn't make it nefarious.

Which will help us bypass municipal laws

Do you have any facts to share about this? I would expect any new, modern, prefab homes to be built in Canada to the local building codes. Municipalities have as much at stake and to gain in solving our local housing shortages.

[–] Arkouda@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago

Weird take.

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