Americans are confused, frustrated by new tipping culture, study finds : usnews

[-] Stillhart@lemm.ee 36 points 1 year ago

The tipping for Uber Eats/Door Dash drives me up a wall. If I'm getting one small bag of food, why would I pay the delivery driver a percentage of the cost of the food? Why should a delivery from Chez Snooty tip more than a delivery from McDonalds if they're both the same amount of work for the delivery driver and they're providing the exact same service?? Now the LOWEST option in the app that's not custom is 18% and it defaults to 20%. WTF?? I already pay extra for the delivery!! You're supposed to use that money to pay your employees. If you can't, then your business model isn't sustainable!

/deep breath

[-] Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you can't, then your business model isn't sustainable!

It's this. Without the tip (or a higher upcharge in delivery fee to earmark some for the driver) there'd be no incentive for drivers to take the job. If the company didn't take the delivery fee, there'd be no structure, like apps or a unified company distributing tax papers, etc.

Beyond that, since drivers typically choose which individual jobs to pick up, there'd be no incentive to take larger or more distanced orders.

The problem is that the business model doesn't work in the first place and is largely on life support being propped up by tipping culture.

[-] papertowels@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago

Fwiw, tipping based on price is probably intended to be a heuristic for tipping based on volume or difficulty - someone who orders 4 meals from McDonald's should tip more than someone who orders one.

[-] WalrusDragonOnABike@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

If the person is walking or biking, sure. If they're driving, then whether they get lucky with the lights should matter more for the tip cost than whether it was 1 small bag or 2 medium ones.

[-] papertowels@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago

All I'm saying is the guy juggling 5 drinks deserves a bigger tip.

[-] Konlanx@feddit.de 21 points 1 year ago

Not the original commenter, but the guy juggling 5 drinks deserves no tip. He deserves a fair pay and the stuff the customer buys should be priced in such a way it enables fair pay.

I am not from the US and delivery drivers here don't even expect a tip. I order my stuff, pay exactly what the menu said (and maybe a deliver fee, which is fine to me, you then usually have the option to come and pick it up without that fee) and get my food 30 minutes later.

Tipping is an extremely bad practice that makes the pay of people unpredictable and depending on their situation can make a day with bad tipping a problem for them.

Stop tipping.

[-] papertowels@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago

I'm glad tipping culture isn't required for you. I agree with the cons of tipping. If you have practical advice I will consider it, but I don't think not tipping workers who are currently depending on the tip for income is the play. I do not have a magic wand that will change payment schemes. I can lower said unpredictability by not tipping at all I suppose, but that doesn't seem the right approach either.

[-] Konlanx@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If tipping was stopped all around this would force employers to be responsible for the pay of their employees.

This can only be achieved by holding the employers accountable. Buy from companies that pay fair wages. Don't buy from those that rely on tips. Vote with your money.

[-] papertowels@lemmy.one 2 points 1 year ago

I have known one restaurant in my city that (temporarily) went tipless - that's it.

[-] millie@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is a really bad take. If you think their business model doesn't support its workers, don't engage with the company. To choose to do so anyway in a country where tipping is the standard and choose not to tip, you are exploiting workers. The employer may be exploiting them as well, but taking part in that system and deciding to skip out on the part that makes the job a living wage is actively malicious.

I drive a taxi. If people don't tip, I shrug it off, but they're basically asking me to subsidize their ride. I do not make enough to live without tips. I'm not going to charge myself extra by getting upset about it, but it does impact me financially. And often people who don't tip are folks who are much better off monetarily than I am.

[-] Konlanx@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I disagree.

You should not look at the customer to make up extra payment so your wage becomes bearable. This way you are pointing in the wrong direction for a fair pay.

The customer is not the one responsible for you making enough money. Your employer is.

Employers are also the only people gaining anything from tipping. The laws in the US actually allow employers to pay less than minimum wage if the worker receives tips: https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips Since tipping is not predictable the employer wins by having to pay the worker less. The worker loses.

Also you as the worker are responsible to track and pay taxes on the tips you received, not your employer: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tip-recordkeeping-and-reporting

I understand it sounds scary when I say "Stop tipping" because it sounds like less money to you, but don't look at me, the customer, for this. Look at the employer. Stop tipping.

Edit: I agree with your take to stop engaging with companies that rely on tipping to change this, though. I think that was not clear from my comment.

[-] millie@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you think that workers aren't being paid an equitable wage and you continue to spend money on something that isn't essential, you're complicit. The employer may be putting the idea of underpaying their workers on the table, but you're the one allowing him to continue to operate. He doesn't exist in a vacuum.

The entitlement here comes both from the greedy employer and from the greedy consumer. Greed is wrong regardless of what side of the counter you stand on. No ethical consumption under capitalism, sure, but that doesn't mean you have to participate in stiffing someone.

[-] Konlanx@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Totally agree with this.

You've brought up very good points. As long as consumers support this it will stay the same.

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[-] red@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 year ago

Noone should be tipped, but paid a living wage by their employer.

[-] bermuda@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

I work as a delivery driver (NOT gig work, hired by my company directly) in a city in a state that pays me a living minimum wage plus a living mileage. What confuses me the most is how pissy my coworkers get about non-tippers. Shaking their drinks, dropping their food, getting all huffy.

I literally don't care. Some nights have been horrific nights with 4 dollars total in tips, but I think most nights I end up with 30 to 50 anyway just because of tip culture.

[-] Quexotic@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

This is exactly why I just don't use these services at all. It's not good for me, it's not good for their employee, it's not good for the place that I'm buying the stuff from, it's only good for GrubHub or Uber eats or whatever the fuck. It's rent seeking behavior pure and simple.

[-] FlashMobOfOne@beehaw.org 23 points 1 year ago

I don't think anyone's confused or frustrated by it.

If you're not getting any extra service for something you're buying, you just hit the zero button.

[-] BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

I think a nontrivial amount of people are essentially incapable of dealing with even a minute amount of social awkwardness or guilt and functionally cannot bring themselves to hit the zero button, so they'd rather complain about having been made to make the choice rather than accept the fact that they have zero willpower.

Maybe this makes me a selfish ass, but honestly, that doesn't bother me very much. If those people want to help subsidize my own purchases, I'm not gonna complain about it.

[-] millie@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah, I feel like the offense at the mere idea of a tip comes from the same place as people who get upset when they misgender me and I gently correct them. Or like, people who will call for a cab ride and then literally apologize the whole way because they somehow feel like me driving (which I like to do) is putting me out.

If people didn't put so much emphasis on having to be perfect all the time, they'd probably be a lot less horrible when they don't meet their own standards.

[-] Fiivemacs@lemmy.ca 21 points 1 year ago

Stop tipping and caring what people think about it. Easy.

[-] urist@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 1 year ago

The title of this article is an example of manufacturing consent.

Culture is defined by people. If “Americans” as a whole are confused, this wasn’t a cultural shift.

This is a direct result of companies asking their patrons to subsidize the wages of their workers. The capitalist class is asking the rest of us to pay their workers instead of pricing it into their business, and we comply because we have empathy for our fellow workers.

Just pay your workers a dignified wage so I don’t have to have a moral struggle when I order my fast food. Please. I’ve just started buying less.

Disclaimer: I can’t read this article because it’s paywalled. Most of my own wages are from tips.

[-] Powderhorn@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Might I suggest the provided archive link in the original post? It pairs well with the house Chardonnay.

I agree with everything you're saying, though the terminology seems a bit off. The hed is an example of framing, while the practice itself is manufacturing consent.

I'm not a huge fan of the Post's framing these days (see also, "Why Isn't There A Recession" a couple years back), but I take satisfaction each year when I forget to cancel that I'll be sharing free links.

I don't eat fast food at all anymore, short of when I'm moving. The appeal thereof was always "faster and cheaper than anything I could make," and my recent move made me aware that it's now slower and more expensive than getting Boar's Head sliced to spec at the deli in the grocery store, along with the rest of the fixings for about four sandwiches, and then going through the checkout line.

I'm homeless by choice because at $21/hour, this year's rent hike posed the ever-pleasant question: Food or Housing? And how is that not a game show yet? I'm settling in nicely enough to living in a van that two weeks in, I gave notice at work with nothing else on deck.

I have no kids, no house ... I'm society's worst nightmare at this point, as I have nothing making me afraid. Nothing I have to accept being demeaned and underpaid for. And I didn't take an auto loan out on my vehicle, so good luck repossessing that if it really hits the fan!

I have nothing to lose. I've filed for bankruptcy before and will happily do so again if finding a job where I'm creating or improving a product, or improving the workflow, once again is a bridge too far and why can't I just write or code to trick people or lie to them? Sorry, you already lost me, so I'm not going to spread your bullshit.

And all that said: Unless you're bringing rounds of things to my table, fuck off with this tipping thing.

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[-] elfpie@beehaw.org 19 points 1 year ago

The problem with tipping not being an extra is that one theoretically ends up paying the waiter's salary directly without being in a direct work relation with them. The restaurant pays people to be there, the clients pay the people to provide a service, the restaurant doesn't share their profits with their employees, the clients are pressured to decide how much of that profit should be shared and generate that number on the side.

It's the old two categories being exploited and pitied against each other.

[-] HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org 15 points 1 year ago

I don’t appreciate being asked for a tip when I’m eating at a place that only offers counter service. If all you’re doing is sliding a tray of food across a counter, then no, you don’t deserve to be tipped like an actual waiter.

[-] millie@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

So think about it this way. If you were at a restaurant without table service (like a pizza place or deli) that had a tip jar on the counter, you probably wouldn't get upset. You'd either tip or not tip and leave it at that, but unless you're a very specific kind of classist you probably don't mind the general concept of a tip jar quietly existing.

Square literally is just leaving the option of a tip jar. If they don't prompt you to leave a tip, you can't leave a tip if you want to. Either there's a tip jar or there isn't. If somebody decides to give a little extra help to the people they're asking to help them, it gives them that option. It's nice to have even if it doesn't get used all the time, because someone who's feeling generous can tip extra, which is great.

You should not feel like the existence of a Square POS immediately means you're being pressured or obligated to tip. If you're in a situation where you'd traditionally be expected to tip, like sitting in a restaurant or getting a ride in a taxi, then yes, obviously the social obligation remains. But if it's not one of those situations? Simply being given the opportunity to do so doesn't mean you have to. No more than you have to donate to St Jude.

[-] HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

Nah, tip jars don’t bother me. What I don’t like is that the person at the register can immediately see exactly how much I’m tipping. It’s impossible to be discreet. If I’m leaving a generous tip, I don’t like to feel as if I’m showing off.

With tip jars, I make a point of tipping when the person at the register isn’t looking (like when they’re relaying my order to the kitchen or something). Maybe I’ll toss some money in the jar on my way out the door. When I’m getting table service, whoever waited on me doesn’t see the tip until I’ve already left the room.

I don’t like the Square POS (or whatever) because it turns tipping from a spontaneous, pleasant surprise to a in-your-face formalized routine.

I can’t blame you if you find my response frustrating. I’m fully aware that I’m being irrational.

[-] millie@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I mean, shouldn't that say something to you, then?

Like, if it bothers you that they can see what you're tipping, maybe you're not fulfilling an expectation that you know you should?

Like, what do you owe to the people who spend their days enabling your comfort and convenience? What do we owe to each other in general?

I feel like you know in your heart that we owe something to others, and that when you're afraid of owning your actions it may be an indicator that you know you're not living up to that.

Personally, as a tipped worker who herself tips generously, I'm proud to give the tips that I do and glad to see the response to them. It's worth more than the little bit extra beyond what would be a mediocre tip, even if I'm pretty broke myself. Keep it going around, you know?

I feel like the world would be a lot better if we stopped worrying so much about our own defensive tendencies and started worrying more about making the kind of world we could have with a little more empathy. Selfishness literally will make you miserable no matter how much you have, because it doesn't feel good to nitpick about what you 'deserve'. It feels better to help.

[-] HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It tells me that businesses have decided it’s okay to be obtrusive and rude.

I’ve had jobs where my income was heavily dependent on tips, so I keep that in mind when leaving a tip myself. I understood that tipping could be a sensitive subject, so I was careful to never make guests feel like it was mandatory or expected.

I certainly never asked for a tip before any service had been rendered - but that’s what has become normal for many businesses. The employees aren’t the problem. The owners/managers who choose the POS software are.

“What do we owe to each other in general?” is an excellent question. I’m not being shown the same degree of courtesy that I worked hard to show others, and that bothers me.

[-] millie@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I’m not being shown the same degree of courtesy that I worked hard to show others, and that bothers me.

I don't think this is ever a measure that we can really use constructively. If you do the right thing in some category of behavior, you're going to find that often people don't do the right thing.

Think about it like driving. A competent driver is going to notice how terrible a lot of people on the road are at driving safely. People do some wild shit. The question, though, is what are you going to do with that? Are you going to use it to make yourself frustrated and potentially make your own driving worse as your focus shifts to it? Or are you going to be someone on the road who's paying attention, reacting to their environment, and not letting their sense of entitlement to a clear road get in the way?

We can't be good at everything and we can't make everything our focus; as humans we prioritize what we think is important. If something isn't on our radar, we probably aren't thinking about it at all.

So, like, the effort you put in to make sure that customers don't feel pressured is based on your morals and ethics, your outlook, and your feeling of what people want and should be able to expect. That's you living your values, but those aren't everyone's values. People won't even know that you're internalizing that value unless you tell them.

If you look at your values as some sort of transaction, where you do others the 'courtesy' of following your values in regard to your interactions with them, you're going to continuously be disappointed when they fail to have the same values as you in return.

The reality, though, is that you're doing your values for yourself, because you believe in them. You feel they ought to be done, so you do them. But they're not my values. It's not a favor to me for you to do your values, it's a favor to you. You can't expect that just by you doing them I'll suddenly possess them. I value different things because my experiences have very likely been very different.

We can talk about how they differ, but I feel like if you set out a path for yourself where you end up resentful of a world that doesn't share your values, which is just statisically incredibly likely to be the world you live in a vast majority of the time that you interact with other humans, it's probably going to be kind of frustrating.

Obviously the stakes matter here. Like, if by values we're talking about not killing one another, that's pretty dire. But if it's like what the best way to be a service worker is? Ehh, probably less so.

Honestly, framing it this way works pretty well when people don't tip, too. To my values, if people ask for a ride and don't tip they're essentially asking me to pay for part of their ride. But that's not how everyone feels. I'm not going to charge myself extra in the form of cortisol for the trouble if I can help it.

[-] ConsciousCode@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

It's the same reason people hate ads. If you see a poster in a restaurant advertising some service, you don't care. But ads on the internet are shoved in your face and must be dismissed to get at the content. The equivalent of a tip jar for Square would be a button that says "tip your server" next to "continue". Instead, there's no easy way to dismiss the tip prompt - you have to go into custom and choose 0, which makes it an active choice which must be made in order to even continue, as if the server held the tip jar directly in your face and you had to push it aside to pay at the till. It's an imposition, one which targets neurodivergency surrounding motivation and social anxiety (eg people pleasing and depression). They took one of my spoons!

[-] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago

North of the border, the Canadians are also getting pissed off. My 72-year-old mother accidentally press the tip button on a self-service gas pump and tipped 20%. She was livid.

Over here in the EU we don't do the tipping. It is proposed on things like Uber Eats and some of the riders certainly take their time if they don't get a tip. Pardon my French, but when they roll up in a car or on a scooter, they can fuck right off. I tip cash when the deliverer is on a bike.

[-] ConsciousCode@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Genuinely wondering, who even gets the tip in that case? Or is it just a donation to the billion dollar multinational corporation?

[-] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Employees would need to trust their employers quite a bit in this case. And if you tip with your card, employers probably deduct a percentage and call it a "transaction fee" and pocket that too.

[-] ShellMonkey@lemmy.socdojo.com 8 points 1 year ago

I have to wonder howuch the popularity of all the digital ways to pay is to blame for this. Way back people would leave a few actual bills on the table, it was presumed that the server would get them and all was well.

Now people routinely use debit cards, phones, telepathic toadstool fund deposits, etc to pay for everything. You can use a credit card to buy a soda from a vending machine FFS. As a result it's simpler to just add it to a single transaction and so everyone wants their token.

I'm always wary of paying a tip at the till though, part of me suspects the staff will never see that, or the owner will claim a portion for just being a swell person, which is not the point of the tip.

[-] ConsciousCode@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

I saw a tip option at a coffee shop the other day, but it's very unclear who's even getting that tip. The cashier? They're not doing anything extra, so a tip doesn't make sense. The barista? If I get a complicated drink a tip might make sense. But I genuinely wouldn't doubt it if this ambiguity is taken advantage of and the business just pockets the tip and no one sees it.

[-] JCPhoenix@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

Next week, Las Vegas is hosting a Formula 1 race. First time since like the early 80s. Recently, the local government's taxi authority has authorized a $15 surcharge for certain trips during that time. Why?

According to the Taxicab Authority Board, that surcharge is fully necessary “to encourage full workforce participation.” Apparently, there’s some worry that cab drivers will be less inclined to work on the busy event weekend. Not only is the city expecting an influx of European riders who don’t conform to the tipping customs of the U.S., but traffic is going to be abysmal with the main arteries of the city shut down to facilitate the race.

Source.

I have to believe that the majority of attendees will be Americans. Sure, there will be non-Americans from non-tipping cultures, but does that really mean that a $15 surcharge-in-lieu-of-tip is really needed on everyone? Especially as high as $15? For some of these flat-rate trips they range in price from $22-30. The surcharge means the "required tip" is 50-68%!

Insanity.

[-] Stillhart@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

Vegas has a rich tradition of taking visitors for every dime they have. This absurd charge is no different than the "resort fee" they charge at hotels. And good luck trying to get tickets to a popular concert or sports event at anywhere close to face value.

As a local, all I can say is thank you for my lack of state income tax. :-D

[-] JCPhoenix@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Hey, I think fleecing tourists is A-OK! Why not get some of that sweet tax money? Especially if it alleviates some of the pain for residents. I know you Vegas residents also get like 10% discounts at all sorts of places, too.

My parents moved there 5yrs ago. And my brother moved there over the summer. We're all from the Midwest. They definitely love having no state income tax! My parents keep trying to convince me to join them all, but I'm just not a Vegas person. I like to visit (mainly because of my family), but I don't think the lack of state income tax is enough.

We actually did get tickets to one of the F1 practice sessions. Hoo boy. But I am hearing that the ticket prices on the actual race are starting to fall. So maybe we'll also get to see that!

[-] SenorBolsa@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A lot of taxi and rideshare drivers are saying they are getting the hell out of town for the event so they don't have to deal with it, so you have to incentivize people to stay on and make some cash. My source is just secondhand anecdotes of what cabbies were talking about when friends and family were visiting recently but if it sticks out enough for these people to mention it a lot of people must have said it.

It sucks but for once I think Vegas isn't just being full of shit here.

Whether it's the perception alone of European guests or a real issue is kind of irrelevant because the cabbies don't want to work the event either way.

[-] millie@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

You couldn't get me to drive a cab in Vegas for a $20 tip with every ride.

I've definitely run into Europeans that are totally clueless about tipping and it sucks. I can absolutely see adding a gratuity during an event with a disproportionate number of Europeans attending.

If you don't like it, you're free to not take a cab.

[-] JCPhoenix@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

That goes without saying. That's true of any of this conversation; no one has to go to a restaurant. No one has to use Doordash. No one has to go to a barber shop for a haircut. That doesn't mean tipping and "force tips" are still OK.

Either way, I didn't mean to cause such consternation. I've never taken a cab in Vegas, but having driven on Las Vegas Blvd myself during non-event times...yeah, I could see how that'd be a nightmare. Add on F1, with road closures and more clueless tourists than usual... I'd probably not drive a taxi (or even driving personally) for a week either!

I guess in some ways, the addition of a surcharge here represents a truer cost of the service. It'd be like a restaurant not allowing tipping, but paying workers a much higher wage, while also upping the cost of the food and everything to account for that. And there'd be no "free rider" like we might see with those who don't tip. Every customer has to pay their fair share, so to speak.

Though, like you're saying, it's still probably not enough. I wonder how much a taxi ride in Vegas would have to cost to make it worthwhile for a driver every time. I suppose if there's anywhere in the US where this experiment would work, it'd be Vegas. People pay a lot for the whole experience. Hell, they literally give money away to the casinos. Might as well get a little bit more out of them.

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[-] autotldr 3 points 1 year ago

🤖 I'm a bot that provides automatic summaries for articles:

Click here to see the summary

Drew DeSilver, the senior writer of the report, says the lack of consensus isn’t surprising given the ad hoc nature of the tipping regime in the United States.

Most don’t like the addition of “service charges,” the amounts that many restaurants and other businesses have tacked on to customers’ tabs under various names, often to cover the higher costs of things like food and labor — without having to raise their prices.

And they are also more likely to oppose a suggested tip amount than favor it, something businesses have recently taken to putting on touch-screens at takeout spots or on printed bills — ostensibly to make calculating them easier, but often used as a prod to get customers to shell out.

But with more opportunities to tip, and with some restaurants and other businesses offering prompts, there’s still plenty of confusion about whether customers should leave a gratuity — and if so, how much.

Advances in technology — like delivery apps and tablets at counters where you can tap to leave a gratuity — might be convenient, but they are contributing to the uncertainty.

When DeSilver went looking to see what kind of guidance people were being offered, whether in etiquette guides or in popular media, the results were all over the place, he said.

Saved 76% of original text.

[-] sour@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

was it new

[-] megopie@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago

The new part is every card payment system having a tip option, where as tips used to be a thing you gave a server in cash on the table, then a optional fee addended to a bill at a sit down restaurant to compensate the server (since they were getting payed below minimum wage), this is different though.

Even food providers where there are no servers have “tips” now. Often times establishments do not even choose to have them, they’re just the default on the payment system.

The tip system was always kind of scummy as it was putting the onus of preventing the server from getting kicked out of their home on the customer. Now though, rather than costumers being put on the hook for paying exploited workers, the companies are weaponizing that guilt based system to pad profits even further. Often times those “tips” don’t even end up going to the workers at the restaurant, they go straight in to the companies revenues, and pad the incomes of the payment service companies that get a 1-3% cut of every transaction.

What used to be conceptualized as a way to reward hard work is now just another avenue to scam people out of money. It’s another crack in the wall of a system that is mindlessly sabotaging it’s own justifications. Creating further contradictions.

[-] sour@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

a year ago

[-] megopie@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A year ago is still new. It’s been a creeping problem since well before covid even. Edging back in to the early days of tablet and phone based card readers.

[-] bermuda@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago

earth is about 4.5 billion years old so 1 year is pretty new

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