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I get severe flood warnings all the time. Every spring and summer. I've lived through one actual flood where the water came in our house. It's insanely difficult to decide when to evacuate. One hour after a warning is not unheard of.
Now if they were standing around in knee high water then it's different but something tells me that this flash flood hit so fast that it hit them by surprise. It's easy sit here on our keyboards and virtue signal with our dry clothes and no immediate danger
Ignoring the warnings when they say "extreme danger to life" for the river you're in when your buildings and the kids you're responsible for are in the damn river's floodplain does not "make it difficult to decide".
I'm not virtue signaling. I'm mad as fucking hell. Because I know there are actions that could (and damn well should) have been taken to protect those kids and counselors, and the rot began at the top.
Yeah, I get severe weather warnings all the time. Usually for hail or damaging winds, but also occasional tornadoes. But I have only ever seen a few tornadoes actually touch down, and it has always been dozens of miles away. Even the hail warnings are usually overblown. Warning about baseball sized hail, then we only get some wind and a light sprinkle.
I'm gonna guess what state you live in by this commemt.. either Kansas or Missouri hmmm kansas??
Same. Lots of flash flood warning during normal summers. I keep my eyes open to see if I need to change my usual routine. Usually not .
Campers were not allowed to bring mobile phones, and counselors were made to surrender theirs, leaving them unable to see the emergency alerts themselves
The kids, I understand, but I think the counselors should have been allowed to keep their phones, at least after hours.
The Post said the NWS alert did not contain an order or recommendation for evacuation, a power it said rests with local government officials.
Yeah, the local government officials that debated a flood warning system for over a decade because they didn't want to pay the $1 million themselves, then were given $10 million in pandemic funds and re-directed most of it to the sheriff's department, and a footpath.
“We’ve heard accounts of trailer after trailer after trailer being swept into the river with families in them. [We] can’t find the trailers, we don’t know how many of them there are,” the county judge, Rob Kelly, said. One trailer was found “completely covered in gravel” 27ft below the surface of the river, he said, adding that sonar crews were searching the river and local lakes. Two reservoir lakes attached to the river would be drained to aid the search, officials said.
The more I hear, the sicker - and angrier! - I feel.
You forgot to say that they spent the 10 million out of spite saying that spending it on an early warning system was woke and the money was communist money from Biden. Big MAGA brains in that county.
Saw an article the other day about how Texas is the most disaster prone state, while simultaneously being the most against any sort of disaster preparedness.
Dumbfucks.
I'd say the big three are California (fire, potential earthquakes), Florida (hurricanes with tidal surge), and Texas. But as you say, Texas is the one that refuses to do anything to mitigate their risks, even those of their own making - and it does seem that so many of the disasters Texas has are massively exacerbated by their refusal to mitigate risks.
A friend of mine suggested that Texas' nickname should be "The One Star State".
Just looked it up. 3rd is Oklahoma, 2nd California, and 1st is Texas
My first thought was Oklahoma or Kansas because both are in one of the “Tornado Allies”.
Fun fact. There's a new tornado alley running from southern Missisippi to Northern Florida. I'm sure it has nothing to do with climate change
Yep
Actually they're at war with tornadoes
Lol
Florida actually handles hurricanes fairly well. At least they did when I left over a decade ago. They took home construction fairly seriously, ugly, but sturdy when it came to high winds.
This is pretty common at summer camps with cell phones, there are many reasonst. It's also common however to have people in place who are trained and will respond to such incidents regardless of camp size, location or time of day.
I’m not sure what this article is trying to imply but if I got an evac alert at 1am I would be dead because I would’ve been asleep.
Yeah, this seems like a weird way to place blame on the victims of a natural disaster. Because, y'know, we all do our best critical thinking at 1:00 in the morning. Article strangely makes no mention of the local government voting against flood warning sirens in that exact location, though.
It is a weird way. Particularly when there are much better ways to assign blame to this particular individual whom the guardian refers to as the "camp leader" and the person who ran the camp, when he was, in fact, the owner.
Federal regulators repeatedly granted appeals to remove Camp Mystic's buildings from their 100-year flood map, loosening oversight as the camp operated and expanded in a dangerous flood plain in the years before rushing waters swept away children and counselors, a review by The Associated Press found.
The Federal Emergency Management Agency included the prestigious girls' summer camp in a "Special Flood Hazard Area" in its National Flood Insurance map for Kerr County in 2011, which means it was required to have flood insurance and faced tighter regulation on any future construction projects.
That designation means an area is likely to be inundated during a 100-year flood — one severe enough that it only has a 1% chance of happening in any given year.
He repeatedly got exemptions from regulation that might require him to update or move old buildings and meet more stringent construction requirements over the last decade and a half even as the expanded the camp in the flood plain putting even more kids and counselors at risk.
To my mind, that just makes it worse: he knows he's in a flood plain, he's got repeated exemptions to expand his camp in excess of normal regulation and procedures, be gets a flash flood warning, and he still doesn't evacuate?
Yep. I imagine he waited an hour hoping it wasn't a real disaster then freaked out realizing how ducked he would be of anyone died. I feel like he died trying to save his own ass more than anything else.
Edit: Ducked...? Meh, I'll leave it.
That's the classic flaw with flood plane exemptions. The floods don't tend to care. Next time, if they want to be exempt from flooding, they need to get out the old fashioned map and Sharpie.
The camp already got the cell phone alert. What possible difference would the siren make?
They didn’t have phones and even if they did it’s easy to sleep through a phone alert at 1am during a loud storm.
I replied elsewhere, but I'm gonna stick it here as well for visibility:
NOAA Weather Radios go off like alarm clocks when warnings are issued. Loud as hell. We hear ours 1 floor away through closed doors with a fan and a white noise machine. This camp absolutely should have had not 1 but 2 of these in separate locations.
I'm the emergency manager of a camp. We have redundant alert and notification systems, a full All Hazards emergency plan and drill routinely for sheltering and evacuation.
No less should have been done for these kids. This is 100% on the hands of the leadership of the camp. Full stop.
I think it might be trying to imply that if you were the only one with communications equipment in a known extreme flood risk zone full of children that you are responsible for, you had better not be sleeping at 1am. Also that you probably shouldn’t have fought as hard to be allowed to be in this situation.
NOAA Weather Radios go off like alarm clocks when warnings are issued. Loud as hell. We hear ours 1 floor away through closed doors with a fan and a white noise machine. This camp absolutely should have had not 1 but 2 of these in separate locations.
I'm the emergency manager of a camp. We have redundant alert and notification systems, a full All Hazards emergency plan and drill routinely for sheltering and evacuation.
No less should have been done for these kids. This is 100% on the hands of the leadership of the camp. Full stop.
Yea I agree, about ten years ago I moved to a waterfront place and I get flood alerts for my area often and 9 times out of 10 nothing comes of it.
Now I am not a commercial entity.
I worked as the director of health for a major kids camp in Canada for a long while. This phone call would have come to me at our camp. We had almost 1000 people across three sites in our summer camp then. Only three people on each site had phones permanently but I guarantee this would have been responded to immediately. Evacuation plans in place and reviews and updates for them every year. I received emergency calls all the time. Day and night.
I guess what I'm getting at is there shouldn't have been that many people in one place without Evac plans, having practiced them and someone who answers an emergency line 24 hours a day who has experience and knowledge in emergency situations. An hour warning is more than enough time to evac this small a camp if you are prepared.
Not just the state and weather are to blame for this tragedy. The camp needs to bear just as much responsibility. They've taken on these children with the responsibility to care for and protect them. They didn't do that.
Not just the state and weather are to blame for this tragedy. The camp needs to bear just as much responsibility as well.
Absolutely. As I pointed out in another post in this thread, FEMA declared that part of the camp was on a flood plain in 2011. The camp appealed and got them to change the designation which would have required flood insurance and forced them to build to stricter standards as they built more structures on the flood plain.
That's so fucked up. I'm not surprised unfortunately. Flood plain and building very close to oceans is popular in Canada as well and will lead to many issues pretty soon.
they appealed?? to whom?? god??
To FEMA, who said, "Gosh, I guess maybe we don't need to declare all that area as a flood plain."
No one knows better than a warning sign
Reminds me of this moment
It's incredible that we got that moment on film.
I mean, "sent to his phone at 1:14am" does not mean they actually saw and read the alert at 1:14am.
It's 1:14am. Don't you think he could have been asleep or something?
See my comment about NOAA weather radios
That's going to be an interesting lawsuit.