this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2025
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[–] abbotsbury@lemmy.world 16 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Actually, "mushrooms are technically meat" is a new hill I'd like to die on. Mushrooms have animal cells, ergo, definitely not a vegetable.

[–] Droggelbecher@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

They don't, they're a distinct third thing with a distinct third type of cells

They are, however, more closely related to us animals than they are to plants. As in, our last common ancestor is less far back.

Also, unrelated to your comment, but related to the post: vegetable isn't a botanical term, but a culinary term. So, there's no bioligical basis for vegetable in the first place, so there's no issue with counting mushrooms among them. Sure, it's a bit inconvenient that the word 'fruit' is both a culinary and a botanical term in English, and there's overlap to it, but that doesn't mean it's somehow illogical that some things are culinarilu fruits but not botanically, and vice versa.

[–] abbotsbury@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (2 children)

So, there’s no bioligical basis for vegetable in the first place

idk if I would go that far, I think "edible parts of plants" is a solid foundation. Sure, "edible" is kind of a social construct, but the plant part is indisputable. "Vegetarian" and "plant based diet" are near synonymous

[–] CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Maybe non-animal is better than just plant, since mushrooms are part of plant based diets.

[–] Droggelbecher@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

I've never been under the impression that any edible plant part is a vegetable. Like, an almond? An apple? Rice? Cinnamon? I could go on. All edible plant parts. I've never heard of them be referred to as vegetables.

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[–] sirico@feddit.uk 21 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] kautau@lemmy.world 17 points 3 days ago (2 children)
[–] Draegur@lemmy.zip 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It's everybody's celium. Mycelium. Yourcelium. Ourcelium.

[–] Noodle07@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

It's ourcelium komrad

[–] PlantDadManGuy@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

Better check your privilegelium

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 138 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (39 children)

The whole fruit/vegetable controversy only comes because we're trying to use two different domains of terms interchangeably: botanical terms and culinary terms.

Tomatoes (and squash, and pumpkins (which, side note, are a type of squash), and cucumbers) are botanically fruits, but culinarily they're most commonly used as vegetables because they tend to be less sweet, particularly when raw. Mushrooms are botanically...well, I guess they're botanically "n/a", as they're not a part of the plantae kingdom, but whatever--they're typically considered botanical, so they're "botanically" fungi, but culinarily they're most commonly used as vegetables (or, interestingly, as meat replacements).

We get into the same linguistic confusion when we start throwing around "peanuts aren't nuts, they're legumes!"--botanically, yes, peanuts are legumes, but culinarily they're most commonly used as nuts. See also: "green beans" are botanically pods, not beans, but we use them culinarily as vegetables; and many "berries" are botanically something else but we use them culinarily as berries; meaning they're often left whole, mixed with other berries in the same dish, and go well with cream in cold summer desserts.

The whole thing is a misguided exercise in pedantry; "technically burritos aren't sandwiches, they're meat-sacks!" They're both, and we instinctively understand that trying to compare the two terms is silly because "sandwich" is a culinary term and "sack" is not.

~~Another funny part of this is that pedants are trying to say that tomatoes are (botanically) fruits and not vegetables, but the closest thing to a definition we have for "vegetable" botanically is "literally all plant life and maybe also some fungi," so tomatoes are clearly both fruit and vegetable botanically.~~ Plus, they're culinarily used as vegetables, but can also be used as fruits in some cakes, pies, sorbets, and so forth (and isn't ketchup just a tomato smoothie?), so tomatoes are clearly both fruit and vegetable in culinary terms as well.

edit: Someone who actually knows what they're talking about (an ecologist) has corrected my botanical definition of "vegetable." Actually, they're “edible parts of a plant which are not fruit.” Which means that tomatoes are explicitly excluded as vegetables, being botanically a fruit. I don't think that ruins my overall point in any way, though.

[–] kingofthezyx@lemmy.zip 19 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (4 children)

Great post, with one caveat

the closest thing to a definition we have for "vegetable" botanically is "literally all plant life and maybe also some fungi,"

I got my degree in Ecology and Evolution, and we always used a similar working definition but it was "edible parts of a plant which are not fruit." So basically botanically, stems, roots, leaves, flowers, and all subvarieties of those are vegetables. Fruits are fruits. Fungi are fungi.

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[–] jwiggler@sh.itjust.works 20 points 4 days ago (4 children)

good post, sounds like a copypasta

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 30 points 4 days ago

Alas, it's all me. I...tend to be a bit verbose.

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[–] TheGiantKorean@lemmy.world 82 points 4 days ago
[–] slingstone@lemmy.world 19 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Big Mushroom is going to take out OP, Boeing-style.

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[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago (8 children)

Always dismiss those people who talk about how tomatoes are fruits as nerds. The category "vegetable" in the kitchen usually refers to more savory plants, not that what part of the fruit it is. Also if you're still one of those "um, ackchually, tomatoes are fruits" kind of people, then eat tomatoes like apples. Maybe even some chili peppers too, they're berries.

[–] vithigar@lemmy.ca 19 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It's just interesting that there's a distinction between botanical and culinary classification. Once you realise that there are two different systems that don't necessarily need to completely agree then it's not a big deal.

...also, what exactly is wrong with taking a bite out of a tomato like an apple? They're delicious.

[–] Robust_Mirror@aussie.zone 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Vegetables aren't even a thing botanically, they're basically "plant stuff that isn't fruit", except when it is.

Botanically speaking, vegetables can be roots (carrots, beets), stems (celery, asparagus), leaves (spinach, lettuce), flowers (broccoli, cauliflower) seeds (peas, beans), and of course fruits that we treat as savory (tomatoes, peppers, eggplants).

And then on the opposite side you have things we call fruits that botanically speaking aren't. Rhubarb is a stem, strawberries are aggregate accessory fruits where the fleshy part we eat is actually swollen stem tissue, and those little "seeds" on the outside are the real fruits of the plant. Figs are not simple fruits, they're inverted flower clusters where the "fruit" is actually a hollow stem containing many tiny real fruits inside.

Even apples and pears aren't true fruits botanically, they're accessory fruits where much of what we eat comes from the flower's receptacle rather than just the ovary.

So yeah the botanical vs. culinary divide works both ways. Our everyday food categories are really more about taste, texture, and how we use foods rather than plant biology.

[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago

Who the hell calls rhubarb a fruit?

[–] MML@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 days ago

My driving instructor ate tomatoes like apples, got a whole wooden crate of them in the morning and a shaker of salt, I probably could've mowed down a few pedestrians as long as that man had his tomatoes.

[–] Litebit@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

A burger meal is mostly vegetable and fruits, vegetable bread a thin slice of meat. served with vegetable potatoes (fries), vegetable hot sauce, tomatoes, and a vegetable drink filled with the vegetable corn syrup.

vegetables are good for you, they say.

[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This is the kind of guy who eats tomatoes as fruits

Do you want to be like that guy?

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[–] abbotsbury@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

Tomatoes and fruits are a great litmus test (no pun intended) to see if a person can recognize the domain of their knowledge. Some people glomp onto a fact that is correct in some scenarios and use it as an "umm actually" where it isn't appropriate or even correct (like the definition of racism)

[–] toeblast96@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago

unironically tho eating tomatoes straight up is pretty fire

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[–] Zacryon@feddit.org 3 points 2 days ago

Vegetables are a social construct. Depending on culture this is differently labled. Afaik there are No vegetables in a botanical sense. Just "fruits".

[–] oftheair@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Sure, but they are fun guys!

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[–] jaupsinluggies@feddit.uk 21 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Yeah but a mushroom's such a fungi to be with.

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[–] potoo22@programming.dev 53 points 4 days ago

The true misconception is that there are scientific definitions and culinary definitions. No the culinary definitions don't fit their scientific category. They're not intended to.

[–] the_artic_one@programming.dev 26 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Fungi only got its own kingdom in 1969, before that they were a phylum in Plantae. There are tons of people still around who learned "mushrooms are plants" in school, so it's not surprising downstream vocabulary hasn't caught up.

[–] Unbecredible@sh.itjust.works 16 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Idk that food vernacular is necessarily downstream of rigorous taxonomies at all lol.

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[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 15 points 3 days ago

Let's not forget that apples, strawberries and cashews are pseudofruits, just like the produce of my labor!

[–] Jtotheb@lemmy.world 39 points 4 days ago (3 children)

They’re (mushrooms) also constantly listed on American menus as a “protein” option despite a dire lack of the stuff

[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 days ago (5 children)

Hmm, is it really that little? The stats look devastating, like e.g. 3 grams per 100 grams, but mushrooms also consist out of 90+ grams of water.

For example, the button mushroom has:
100 g total - 91.8 g water - 1.7 g fiber = 6.5g nutrients
2.89 g protein / 6.5 g nutrients = 44.4% protein

Comparing that to e.g. canned black beans:
100 g total - 70.8 g water - 6.69 g fiber = 22.51 g nutrients
6.91 g protein / 22.51 g nutrients = 30.9% protein

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[–] BeNotAfraid@lemmy.world 35 points 4 days ago (1 children)

That's because Vegetable is not a Botanical Term. It is a culinary term. So, Tomatoes are both fruit and vegetable.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 25 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (5 children)

This.

All fruits are vegetables. Not all vegetables are fruit.

The definition of a vegetable is just any edible part of a plant. While a fruit is specifically the seed-bearing ovary of a flowering plant.

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[–] Babalugats@feddit.uk 43 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Strawberries, blackberries, mulberries, and raspberries are not berries.

Bananas, aubergine (eggplants), oranges and grapes are berries.

Dangleberries aren't real berries either.

[–] Tudsamfa@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago

"Are red pandas carnivores or herbivores?" "They eat like 80% bamboo, so herbivores." "Wrong! They are taxonomically in the order carnivora, making them carnivores! Please ignore that carnivore also just means meat eater and herbivore isn't even a taxonomic clade. People only ever talk to me to get mad at this switching between casual and scientific definitions, I am nothing without it."

[–] boydster@sh.itjust.works 31 points 4 days ago

"Fruiting bodies," even

[–] Genius@lemmy.zip 10 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Mushrooms are obviously fruit

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