this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2025
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[–] rarsamx@lemmy.ca 15 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Well, I know a senior person, retired epidemiologist who is anti covid vaccine because "no vaccine developed so fast can be safe".

It hard containing my self from telling her that from her time as an epidemiologist to now, technology has changed and that they've studied mRNA vaccines for a long time so fighting a particular strain of virus is easier as the whole process has already been successfully tested. However, her family trusts her, she has the credentials and I don't, so it should be up to another epidemiologist with proper credentials to explain that. Not me.

It's like an old engineer saying that current structural calculations in buildings can't be trusted because it used to take months/years of hard work and now they can be done in a fraction of the time with computers.

🤦‍♂️

They are not that effective on their own, but 95% herd immunity is enough to make any pandemics unviable, and the very few people that still manage to catch the disease can be isolated and treated. In other words, vaccinating 90% of a population will result in way less than 10% of the original infections/casualties.

[–] miss_demeanour@lemmy.dbzer0.com 176 points 1 week ago (3 children)
[–] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

See, what I don't get is that loosening vaccine requirements of the general public means less herd immunity. Elites aren't entirely immune from diseases. They rely on the rest of the population also not getting sick.

In a way, they're digging their own grave.

[–] ContriteErudite@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

They’re not shoulder-to-shoulder with the rest of us at Costco, or waiting for hours at an overcrowded clinic, or sending their kids to schools packed past capacity. They live in a separate world, where exposure to the mess the rest of us deal with is minimized.

When illness does fall on them, they get top-tier healthcare; faster, smarter, better than anything we’ll ever see. It’s a tiered society, where wealth and influence dictate your caste. They’re not digging graves; they’re building bunkers.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 89 points 1 week ago (4 children)

The punchline to this joke is that vaccines work best at scale. Your 80 year old decrepit ass doesn't have an immune system that can fully benefit from inoculation. What keeps you safe is that everyone around you has been inoculated, too. They act as a buffer, reducing the speed of transition and the variants that can survive in the population, so that you're never exposed to the virus to begin with.

As soon as you take down that barrier, every town hall meeting and rubber chicken fundraiser means slapping palms with a bunch of anti-vax assholes who are absolutely dripping with contagion. At the height of COVID, Trumpies were dropping like flies. A 2023 study published in JAMA Internal Medicine found that the excess death rate for Republican voters was 15% higher than for Democratic voters in Florida and Ohio between March 2020 and December 2021. This included three different talk radio personalities: Marc Bernier (A long-time host in Daytona Beach, Florida), Dick Farrel (Formerly a fill-in host on Newsmax, he had hosted shows for several Florida stations), and Phil Valentine (A well-known host based in Nashville, Tennessee).

[–] jballs@sh.itjust.works 37 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Ah that just made me nostalgic for the Herman Cain Awards. Yes it was fucked up, but it was a soothing kind of fucked up that made me feel like maybe there was some sort of karma or cosmic justice happening.

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[–] LePoisson@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Low-key was really hoping that having that sort of demographic representation in the COVID deaths would translate to a different electoral outcome.

But no, we crave fascism I guess. That or the election was stolen in 2024 which I wouldn't even be surprised if that were true given the level of projection Trump and the GOP/MAGAtards regularly engage in.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Low-key was really hoping that having that sort of demographic representation in the COVID deaths would translate to a different electoral outcome.

Demographics is not, in fact, destiny. Partisanship isn't hereditary.

We have a fascist national media that keeps cranking up the crazy in the general population. No amount of disease fatality will change that.

That or the election was stolen in 2024

If Biden presided over a stolen election, that's only further evidence of his party's unwillingness to govern.

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[–] AreaKode@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago

Right... A bunch of people die, and then we pocket the cash we saved not paying those long-term medical bills. And eventually, we reach herd immunity. Win-win. This is the system working as intended.

[–] grue@lemmy.world 10 points 1 week ago (3 children)

As soon as you take down that barrier, every town hall meeting and rubber chicken fundraiser means slapping palms with a bunch of anti-vax assholes who are absolutely dripping with contagion.

LOL, Republicans have been fleeing from their constituents and mostly refusing to hold those sorts of events for years now already.

They don't give a shit about herd immunity because they literally only ever interact with other elites.

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[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 95 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Also, it's inability to entertain the hypothetical. "What if we didn't have vaccines?" is literally incompressible to them. There was a Ted talk on it. https://youtu.be/9vpqilhW9uI

[–] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago (2 children)

It's fine, they'll just have twelve kids to have three teenagers. As is tradition.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 1 points 6 days ago

Idiocracy being created in real time.

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[–] Nangijala@feddit.dk 56 points 1 week ago (10 children)

Same shit with covid. People be like "it was a hoax because most people survived" and I just stare at them with no way of knowing how to explain to these geniuses the most basic shit about hygiene and physical distance and how it affects the spread of a potent new virus.

I have a couple of family members who are nurses. One of them being my MiL. She saw the early cases of corona up close and personal and she was very, very, VERY concerned. One of the first patients was a healthy man in his early 50s who was physically active and all that good shit. His lungs were completely destroyed by Delta. Had to get a transplant to survive. Was disabled for life due to other complications caused by the virus.

Every single person I have met who thinks corona was a hoax or doesn't take the virus seriously, are ironically also some of the least educated people on the matter. They also think they know better than medical professionals. They didn't see what this virus was capable of because people like my MiL worked themselves to the bone to save their ungrateful asses.

So when I come across these types in the wild, I just stare at them and think my thoughts about their level of intelligence and move on with my life. Must be nice to be this fucking stupid.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 9 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I just looked it up and the global cumulative deaths from COVID is around 7 million people.

"Only" 0.1% of the humans living on earth, died, so it's not bad, right?

.... And I'm very positive the data is confirmed deaths by COVID, so it's likely a very low figure compared to how many people died from COVID, or died from other things that were complicated by COVID, or died by complications of COVID directly, or died because the hospitals and medical care systems were too overwhelmed by COVID patients to care for them.

I'd estimate that number is probably double if you took all of the associated deaths into account.

It's very very likely that you know someone or are someone who lost someone to COVID. Yet these uneducated chucklefucks think they know better than PhD doctors, researchers, and scientists, that have been studying this shit their entire fucking lives, have qualifications up the ass, and who have dedicated years of their lives to even understanding what a virus is, nevermind any specific virus' behavior. A nontrivial number of them have been working the problem longer than some of these fucks have been drawing back oxygen. Yet, they're not to be believed because reasons.

These kinds of people can get fucked. I hope that they, and their dumbass offspring get a preventable disease and fucking croak, so the world can be less goddamned stupid.

[–] silasmariner@programming.dev 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

7 million would be 0.1%. but that's still a lot.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 days ago

Sorry, my brain isn't happy about doing math right now; I won't get into why.

Thank you for the correction. I will update my post now.

[–] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Every single person I have met who thinks corona was a hoax or doesn't take the virus seriously, are ironically also some of the least educated people on the matter.

That isn't ironic. That's exactly what I would expect.

[–] Nangijala@feddit.dk 5 points 6 days ago

It's ironic in the sense that they consider themselves to be of superior intellect and are very stubborn in that world view. Text probably doesn't communicate sarcasm super well, but that was what I was aiming for.

Also, I agree with you hehe.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

They also think they know better than medical professionals.

Bingo.

I mean, people have always been this way to some extent…

But I think a combination of institutional skepticism and the ‘I found this on Facebook!’ phenomenon (or TV, or podcasts, anything) lead a ton of the public to think they know better instead of just nodding along to what some dedicated professional say, compared to decades past.

[–] SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 1 week ago (5 children)

I don't believe the "good/hard times make soft/strong people" trope is entirely true, but I do feel a modicum of adversity or at least exposure to it is good for people. A lot of people truly don't understand adversity until they experience it themselves. Once they do, though, some can apply that lesson to all parts of life.

I also experienced some COVID consequences: it killed my lunatic antivaxxer father. Even though we literally watched him die on a ventilator, some relatives were adamant it "had to have been something else". Certainly it couldn't have been the novel respiratory virus killing thousands of people! Those people...they won't learn.

[–] skisnow@lemmy.ca 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

An in-law of mine was admitted to hospital with Covid-like symptoms, tested positive for Covid, died on a ventilator, doctors gave Covid as the cause of death.

Her immediate family remain convinced that it was some unspecified mystery other illness, and that the doctors were paid extra by the government based on how many covid death certificates they issued.

Oh shit, are we related?! I had all the same. I even had one offer to help me sue the hospital.

Having no real adversity in your life creates a situation where you never really learn to cope with with it as an adult. However, actual hard times just create generational trauma.

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[–] UnpopularCrow@lemmy.world 33 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

It’s not a vaccine problem, it’s an education problem. A large portion of Americans are exceptionally gullible to propaganda and Republicans have weaponized it very well. The anti-vax narrative is not present in large portions of the population in other developed nations. We need to look within, not at the solution to disease.

Edit: Unfortunately others are informing me that this is a problem in other countries as well, which is sad. My partners family is from a country in Europe that doesn’t appear to have this issue at scale so I foolishly extrapolated.

[–] warm@kbin.earth 17 points 1 week ago

I dont know, large portions of other nations are just as gullible and susceptible to propaganda. I mean no one is immune to it, but a lot of the developed nations do believe immigrants and not the rich are causing all their problems, because that's what the media has told them.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Anti-intellectualism is global.

In the US it is ridiculously blatant because so much of our media thinks subtext is for The Gays. But think about how often the villain is an Evil Scientist or even just A Teacher Who Has It Out For The Protagonist? What began as an active effort has mostly just become the cultural zeitgeist where "people with advanced degrees have no common sense or street smarts" and "too much knowledge turns you into a monster" (see also: The Frankenstein Complex).

Hell, for something more blatant: Go look at the various threads about the US changing its COVID vaccination guidelines. Plenty of Europeans will pop in and say "Yeah. That lines up with what we have. You don't need a booster every year if you are healthy". I'll leave it to the experts as to what defines "need" but... as someone who has somehow managed to catch COVID three or four times, I want those boosters in my muscles because it is the difference between a weekend of "I feel kinda shitty and have a headache in the center of my eyes and... fuck" versus being curled up in a bed coughing and hoping I lose consciousness for a few hours.

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[–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago

You don't miss the water until the well runs dry.

[–] renamon_silver@lemmy.wtf 24 points 1 week ago (5 children)

Nah that's an education problem

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 1 points 6 days ago

Yes, but also no.

You can't educate people who won't listen, believe the information you give them, or learn.

Willful ignorance is extremely common. I work in tech and I have persistent memories of people refusing to learn the most basic shit to help themselves, or change their behavior because "their way" doesn't work anymore, then insist I find a workaround so they can continue to do it whatever backwards way they've been doing it.

I once asked a user to open a folder on a shared drive on a server and I shit you not, they opened fucking word, went to open and browsed from there to the server.

That's the only way that they knew to get to the fucking files.

People are fucking stupid, won't learn, refuse to be taught, and want to remain as uneducated as they possibly can, knowing just enough to continue being employed.

[–] ILoveUnions@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago (6 children)

No, it's a willful denial of reality problem. How they work, why they're needed are basic things taught in almost every school in the states. Students intentionally ignore it.

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[–] wischi@programming.dev 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

To be fair practically everything boils down to an education problem.

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[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

Well, yes, but if you see people die in front of you, that's another form of "education".

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[–] Ethalis@jlai.lu 20 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Crazy how not being pro-deseases is now a political stance

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[–] shplane@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

So weird to think there’s such a thing as “too comfortable.” Excessive privilege is really something.

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[–] Zachariah@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago (2 children)

What I don’t get is that people will chose the terrible effects of the disease over the chance of having side effects from the vaccine when they’re orders of magnitude different levels of effect.

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[–] grte@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

That's what I've been saying. Vaccines are too effective for our own good. Smallpox alone is estimated to have killed 250-500 million during the 1900's. But a generation or two passes without that personal experience and the danger is not treated with the care it deserves.

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[–] Randelung@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago

The umbrella roof is so tight people start to forget it's raining.

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