this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2025
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Shopping for a fairly rugged hatchback (or compact cross) w/ AWD. Maybe Forester vs Mazda 3 Hatch? (feddit.online)
submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by misterred@feddit.online to c/cars@lemmy.world
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Hi, has anyone compared these head to head? I like the idea that the Forester has an available manual transmission. The Mazda looks reliable and very fun to drive. The frontend/grille looks kinda stupid.

We're in very rural northern Vermont with quite a few dirt roads, usually but not always pretty well maintained.

Car dealerships aren't close by. The Subaru dealer is just under an hour drive, the Mazda/Volkswagen dealership just over an hour and a half each way. Locally we have Ford, GMC/Chevy, and Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge.

I'd probably buy new this time although I've had good luck buying 'certified' used cars off of leases, most recently a 2015 Audi A3 off of a 36-month lease cancelled after 24 I think? so pretty close to new - with manufacturer + dealer warranties; someone else having eaten the depreciation; low mileage, and full confidence that scheduled maintenance has been adhered to, prior to my taking ownership. Comfort and tech, of course reliability, and ease of third-party servicing and parts are all considerations for me.

Reasoned opinions very welcome; TIA for any thoughts at all. Buying is hard.

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[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

If you can get the stick, get the Forester in stick. Subaru's only other transmission option these days is a CVT, and I still don't trust the longevity and repairability of these. For instance, the owner's manual states that the CVT transmission module, or whatever the heck they call it, cannot be serviced and does not require maintenance. Then page over to the maintenance section at the end of the manual and it demands that if you tow, drive in excessively hot or cold climates, or in dusty environments you will need to service and maintain the CVT "sooner" than the previously specified service schedule. Which is never, because it just said it can't be repaired or serviced. Needless to say, this skeeves me out. I can at least wrench on a manual transmission myself, and it has the bonus side effect of preventing people from asking to borrow my car.

Me personally, I would avoid all Mazda products unless you specifically want a Miata as a project/track car. Everyone I've known with a recent Mazda has wound up with a pile of issues. Somehow their Ford lineage is still managing to show through. A Scoob will be much easier to work on yourself in my opinion, if that matters to you.

Full disclosure: Mine is a Subaru family. I own a manual Crosstrek after having previously owned a Manual Impreza. My wife has a new CVT Impreza so we'll see how that goes, my father has an Outback, and my stepmother has a Forester. Dad's Outback has the CVT and stepmom's Forester is old enough (I believe the last model year) that it still has a conventional slushbox. No major issues with any of them over a couple of decades, and my folks are definitely completely lackadaisical in the vehicle service department. The newer FB engines in all of our cars except the old Forester are even chain timed, so that removes one major maintenance hassle right from the jump.

It occurs to me that my Crosstrek turned 10 years old last year. I've been beating the shit out of it this whole time, using it as an off-road camping toy and general purpose hauling tool. It's been driven across the country twice. The paint ultimately got so beat up I recoated the entire thing in truck bed liner. I should have got it a cake.

[–] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Subaru no longer offers a manual in anything except the WRX and BRZ. They nuked manuals in the Forester in 2019 and its been gone from the impreza since 2023.They've completely abandoned any semblance of building fun cars anymore. OP would need to buy fairly used (and nobody with a recent manual wants to give it up, so good fucking luck)

The CVT's don't have too many issues these days aside from being useless fucking garbage. The mega failures they had from their introduction in 2010 to about 2018 have largely been solved, and if you're an asshole you can usually force dealers to do the severe-service 60k trans fluid change so they'll last longer. (Lifetime fluid is a scam.)

Their bigger issue is the CVT is useless, less than useless in adverse weather conditions. For context, my parents have a 2018 Forester. The awd works fine to a point, but traction control system is so overzealous about trying to protect the fragile CVT that it will completely BAN you from putting power down to the ground if it detects wheel slip. I'm talking foot on the floor, but its gutless and the engine is doing nothing. You can't disable it fully, you can't spin tires to chew your way through a snowbank, you'll get a foot into a berm and then be completely dead in the water when my old stock forester would have crawled right over it with wheel spin for days. On flat gravel it's ok but oh man does it feel terrible and gutless on a slope or in any kind of snow, and I don't know that OP would have much fun with it in the northeast.

And it feels like actual ass to drive. It tries to fake shift like a normal automatic but with zero torque change. It'll move the car fine but you don't feel a thing in your butt dyno and it drives me nuts.

Subaru had cool stuff that was decent as long as you maintained it but that's long gone. I have zero love for them now.

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

and nobody with a recent manual wants to give it up, so good fucking luck

Agreed. You can pry mine from my cold, dead flippers. And maybe not even then.

If I ever grenade my engine, rest assured I'm sticking an electric powerplant in this puppy and keeping it moving. Stick shift and all.

One thing I do know for sure is that the all wheel drive system between the CVT and manual models, at least for my Crosstrek, is very different. The CVT is front wheel drive until it detects wheel slip at which point it may deign to send some power to the rear wheels, but with significant caveats attached as you have noted. The manual is a full time split 50/50 between front and rear, with limited slip (IIRC an electronic one in the front?) differentials between the left and right sides. This makes mine great fun to scrabble around sideways everywhere in the snow with the traction control turned off. If you start losing it you can pretty much just point the front wheels about 50% of the way towards the direction you want to go, drop it into 2nd, and mash it and it'll claw itself back in that direction eventually.

I also have a set of mildly oversized studded snow tires for mine, just to be an asshole. With those you're basically unstoppable, although what with one thing and another climate-wise I haven't had much use for them in the last three winters or so.

[–] ShankShill@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I have a 2015 Mazda3 automatic that's been pretty great for 252k miles. Full list of repairs beyond typical wear parts has been the rear camera and camera wiring, rear camera switch, infotainment screen (all under warranty btw), and the accelerator pedal.

It has also had about $5k of repairs from the wife hitting a curb at 55mph. One bunch of suspension parts and a new engine cradle later...

Still runs and drives like new.

[–] misterred@feddit.online 1 points 2 weeks ago

I loved my Mazda 323, the early model then known as the Protege, of which Mazda made versions for both Mitsubishi and Chevrolet. A very successful and durable model in my opinion. And like @Artyom@piefed.social I'm cynical about Subaru reliability. I know a couple different mechanics - around here where Subarus are totally ubiquitous - who curse them for being in their shops so repeatedly. But I do like AWD, if not CVT (having no experience with the latter).

[–] artyom@piefed.social 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I just don't like Subaru. I've found them to be very unreliable and simply flawed design with unequal length headers. So I'd highly recommend Mazda. Very good value. Often luxurious interior. One of very few brands making their entire lineup very sporty. Subaru will probably go more places off-road.

[–] misterred@feddit.online 1 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

This is a concise and useful impression. Thank you. If I should consider anything beyond these two, I'd welcome any such suggestion. Leaning to the 2026 Mazda3 Hatchback 2.5 S Premium.

[–] artyom@piefed.social 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I guess I should ask what country you're in but the US has a huge shortage of small cars. ~~The Honda Civic hatch is probably the only other car I'd consider in this segment.~~ The Civic hatch only comes with a CVT 👎

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Older Subarus with the EJ25 are flawed in this way. However, unequal header length does not mean unreliability in any way, as many cars from long ago and even now have unequal header lengths. It just means the engine lumpishly goes brap brap brap at idle instead of clattering rhythmically.

The EJ25 had a few years in the mid-late 2000s where the head gasket was an inferior design, and it would need replacement at 100,000 mi (sooner if you romp on it a lot) as well as the timing belt and water pump, spark plugs and coils. An expensive maintenance.

Any Subaru past 2015 is fine. The new F-series engines use a timing chain and are very reliable. I'm currently running a 5th-gen Impreza with a manual.

Unlike the automatic Subarus, the manual ones have a limited slip center differential, which, while arguably worse for Jeep trails (Subarus are not meant for Jeep trails), it delivers torque more consistently front and rear (50/50, with limited slip bias to the wheels with grip) and handles more consistently than the clutch system the automatics have, turning your car into a rally car.

Also, Mazda uses a clutch system for 4WD.

How does this work? Your car is front wheel drive. When the front wheels start to slip, the computer engages a clutch to temporarily lock the rear wheels into the drive, so you get 4wd.

Subaru's system in the autos keeps that clutch engaged until you are turning, at which it mostly disengages, becoming mostly front wheel drive, until the front wheels slip, then it re-engages becoming fully 4wd again.

As for reliability, mine gets pounded with lots of miles, stop and go driving, and bad roads. I've only needed to replace my front lower control arms at 150,000 mi, which is better than my other cars, which needed tie rods more tie rods and all the tie rods as well as struts and sway bar links.

A lot of people don't like Subaru because of either dissent of popularity, impression they rust to hell (every car in the salt belt does this), or someone skimped on maintenance. What kills a Subaru engine is not checking and keeping your oil topped regularly. If it's 1/2 qt low, you top it off. 1qt low is danger level.

Mazda is a good car tho, but I trust the Subaru 4WD (auto or manual) to do the job much better. A lot of FWD based 4WD cars have issues when there's hills, as their 4WD systems are meant to get the car going on mostly level terrain and otherwise not do anything past that.

As for maintenance on CVT, ignore the manual saying lifetime fluid. This is nonsense. If it has a torque converter or a CVT belt it needs regular maintenance. Change it at 30,000-50,000 just like any automatic, and you won't have a problem.

The Subaru engines have a very wide torque band - anywhere over 3000 and you've got the power, which makes them easy to drive. That and they've managed to squeeze some impressive fuel economy despite being fully (as in all the time) 4wd cars.

[–] artyom@piefed.social 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It's my understanding the unequal length headers are directly responsible for the common issue with ring lands on (I believe) cylinder 3. Could be wrong on that.

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If that is the case, it would be a problem on the old EJ25 engines... the F series engines have equal length headers.

[–] artyom@piefed.social 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Okay I will shut up now.

[–] misterred@feddit.online 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The details about CVT length headers are beyond my scope of concern but I do appreciate everything you've said, thanks very much.

[–] artyom@piefed.social 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

The CVT is the transmission. All you need to know is that they're basically disposable. That I can say with certainty. This applies to the Subaru and Honda. Although I'm sure you can get the Subaru with a manual trans. The Mazda uses a standard hydraulic trans.

[–] misterred@feddit.online 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I realize we're talking about transmissions, and one of the reasons I've tilted toward the Mazda is that it does have an available manual. The Subaru model(s) I considered do(es) not. I just don't know enough about CVT technology to compare vehicles based on their length headers, but it's all good!

[–] artyom@piefed.social 1 points 2 weeks ago

The headers are exhaust equipment and not at all related to the transmission. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding.

[–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 2 weeks ago

I should say I'm not specifically looking for a manual and am also more likely to buy new than used this time. Some models might be allocated but I don't envision many shortages this time of year. Really wondering what people would do with my rather vaguely stated set of considerations for options and features, mostly, traction/clearance/cost-of-ownership/cargo-space/drives like a car not a van/reliability/performance/tech/and I'd like a sunroof. I'm probably going to miss my A3 but its time is nigh. Maybe there's no perfect car for me and I should stop feeling like there ought to be. But as nice as the 2025-6 Forester 'Limited' trim package looks to me (including some recent drivetrain improvements beginning in '25 I think) some of you with a notable exception appear to be persuading me away from the mfgr. Continuing to read and research. Thank you all so much.

Currently reading:
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2026-subaru-crosstrek-hybrid-first-drive-review
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2026-toyota-corolla-cross-first-drive-review

And I hear that sales are poor for the Mazda 3 at least the hatch version, and they might be considering ending its production after the model year. I don't think that should inform my purchasing decision (should it?) but it may tend to push prices down (would it?). This has really caught me eye.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/2025-mazda-3-price/

[–] Etnaphele@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Subaru just released the Crosstrek, which looks exactly like an amalgam of Forrester and Mazda 3 :)

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Just in which market? It's been out in the US since I think 2013. I've had mine since 2014. I don't know about globally.

I find it amusing that the Crosstrek is explicitly a taller, more offroady Impreza. The Forester also originally started out as a taller, more offroady Impreza and was based on the same chassis and powertrain at the time, with many of the components being interchangeable including suspension. Then it mutated into its own thing, so they had to reinvent the concept over again.

[–] Etnaphele@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

I’m just totally out of touch, sorry… in Europe came out last year as a new name for the XV (since 2013 the European name for the Crosstrek).

It looks like a good contender, given OP’s reference vehicles :)

[–] misterred@feddit.online 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yes, I've been thinking a little about the Crosstrek for years. And in terms of the deliberate cross between hatch and compact SUV, I read some appealing things about Toyota Corolla Cross. Nobody has much experience with that car yet, though. And there are others, from Kia, a new Honda Civic variant, etc. I'm interested but also getting shopping fatigue.

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Kia/Hyundai makes some cool, high tech and well engineered cars (I daily'ed A Dual Clutch Veloster for a long time), but their cars rapidly disintegrate over time due to low quality materials.

Honda Civic is my choice over the Toyota Corolla, if you want a front wheel drive economy car (I've daily'ed both). The Civic has better handling, and the sedan version has independent suspension, as well as agreat delta of acceleration and fuel economy.

The Corolla will last you for far longer than you will be willing to keep it, but you can't be rough with it.

The Crosstrek is an Impreza with a lift kit. It's decent, and you don't have to worry about scraping like you would with the Impreza.

Also, other than the WRX, it's harder and harder to find a manual Subaru due to the manuals getting phased out.

[–] Know_not_Scotty_does@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

One think you have not mentioned is how much assist/driver aid do you want/tolerate? I have a 2019 WRX with the manual transmission so no eyesight stuff and its got a good amount of normal safety stuff but nothing that auto brakes or auto steers. Its probably going to be the last new car I buy, because holy shit, some of the "driver aid" stuff is sketchy/annoying/intrusive/frustrating. My mom has a newer Mercedes GLE and I hate it, it counter steers, panic brakes, and generally gets in the way in normal driving situations.

[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I rented a jeep about a year and half ago, and it was jerking me around on the highway, and I could not for the life of me figure out why (other than the general horrendousness of everything about it). Finally I realized it had a lane assist feature, that I was thankfully able to turn off.

That said, if something had early warning ability to help me brake if there’s a moose or deer in the road, I feel like that would be potentially valuable. I haven’t bought a new car in a very long time. Is that a currently available feature, and is it usually well-implemented?

[–] Know_not_Scotty_does@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

The collision warning thing I think is now bundled with the auto breaking and it is usually done about as well as a first day driving student would do it.

[–] misterred@feddit.online 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Hey, hopefully a last question, only because I feel like I've been falling into a Subaru-yay-or-nay quandary.

Anybody have experience with the Chevy Trax? I've seen a few in the mountains around here and they look capable for what that's worth - and more like a sedan, which is appealing to me. In the Compact SUV category Car & Driver likes it very much. Readers have complained about the wet timing-belt.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a68037852/2025-subcompact-suv-comparison-test/

[–] slingstone@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Don't do it. I've seen a teardown by a mechanic and he was not impressed. If I'm recalling correctly, this is a THREE cylinder turbo-charged engine. There's the famous wet timing BELT and plastic in major structural parts. I do not think this will be the kind of rugged vehicle you want.

Here's the review.

[–] CookieOfFortune@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Have you considered a CX-30? It’s more of a hatch than a SUV. There’s a whole bunch of crossovers that can cover this use case as well (like the Crosstrek).

[–] misterred@feddit.online 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I have. I drove one as a rental and I liked it but it did feel SUV-like and I think it goes for around $36k base if I'm not far off. Maybe I am. Anyhow it seemed comfortable if not really all that much fun to drive, but I'll take another look. Thanks!

[–] misterred@feddit.online 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

And yes, I keep reading very good things about the recent CX-30 - including its top ranking for compact SUVs by Car & Driver so I'm reconsidering it strongly also. It could be the car with the ability to get me to move from sedan to (entry-luxury) SUV and thank you very much.

(Reviewed in 2024; why not more recently? Don't know.)
https://www.caranddriver.com/mazda/cx-30-2024

https://www.caranddriver.com/compare/?trimIds=68138110f617407e339225dc%2C688ca95787d50e8069d44443%2C68c2b669b0e59b06d393e950

[–] misterred@feddit.online 1 points 1 week ago

Okay, I had a lengthy chat with the mechanic for my Audi A3. He's asking me to consider most strongly the Mazda CRV or Toyota Corolla Cross. He loves the Honda.

[–] TheLightItBurns@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I have a 2022 Mazda 3 Sedan 2.5 turbo with the premium plus trim. It’s not the hatchback, but I also test drove the hatch back and I liked the sedan a little more for visibility.

I also test drove a WRX and I choose the Mazda3 for multiple reasons. The interior is fantastic, the infotainment is made to keep you focused on driving, and basically all of the non music controls are physical buttons. I also just do not like CVTs at all, so the Mazda3 won for me there as well.

Before this 2022, I had a 2016 Mazda3 and never had to do anything other than the maintenance in the manual for the 70k or so miles I drove it.

If you have any questions about mine, feel free to ask. It’s not the 2026 hatchback, but I may be able to help.

[–] TheLightItBurns@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

I also live in the northeast, and the 2022 with AWD handled snow and ice without any issues, where my FWD 2016 struggled sometimes. I work in pharma manufacturing and the facility does not close, so I needed something that could handle ice/snow that I also wanted to look good. I just do not like the black cladding on the bottom of most Subarus.