Community for asking and answering any question related to the life, the people or anything related to the USA. Non-US people are welcome to provide their perspective! Please keep in mind:
Either in regards to the current political situation, or for other reasons. What drew you to the idea of living in another country? Do you think whatever benefits it offers are really worth it, or is the grass just greener on the other side of the fence?
The problem is that the same forces that affect the US seem to affect everywhere. Look at the UK, even with their supposedly "center left" government they've lost arguably more freedom than the US in the form of the draconian KOSA, and will probably have a rightwing government next. The EU is trying to implement chat control. It unfortunately seems like authoritarianism all the way down, so I'll just stay in the US and fight for liberty and justice for all.
Hey, i have "reduced motion" setting on! And if anyone with epilepsy sees that...
I just moved from the US to a small European country and it's much more of a mixed bag than you could imagine.
I don't want to dox myself too much, but I moved from a very tech-centric city to a smaller nation that's not going to be one of your 1st or probably even 2nd guesses.
I didn't move due to politics, although I'd be lying if I said they didn't have an iron grip on my thoughts as I spent too much time unemployed. It was the tech industry that did me in. I had spent the past decade clawing my career out of the gutter only to have it slam-dunked right into the dumpster by a bunch of gormless tech CEOs who don't see the value in anything. I would've happily stayed and voted, fought and gone down with the whole fascist ship to protect my trans, queer, and minority friends. But I seriously doubted my ability to continue to support myself in that environment, nevermind anyone else.
Maybe these are all just excuses, but when it came time to consider relocating, tearing myself out by the roots and losing all my friends and connections for the sake of finding someplace new I could afford to support myself, I cast a wider net than all that. There was no place in the US I wanted to be more, so I looked further.
And still the opportunities came up short. Everywhere is hurting. I took my modest savings and started a college program. It was an "easier" foot in the door and a chance to upskill myself and hopefully compete better in the market (so I hope, so I tell myself). I cannot stress how difficult and expensive every step of this process has been.
You can tell yourself it doesn't matter, but for as long as I live I'll never outrun the guilt or shame for what ultimately feels like a very selfish action. My therapist says I need to treat this as a reward for positioning myself in a way so as to even be able to take advantage of an opportunity like this, but that really sugarcoats it. There's no even guaranteeing this will pay off. There's no guarantee I eventually find a job or stay here, I may well end up back in the States, only this time without any of the possessions I gave up to get here.
You can't take stuff. I mean not unless you're RICH. It's just costly and takes so much time and effort. Are you going to pay to keep it in storage while you're gone? With the intent that you might never be back? Shipping things over is subject to so much regulation, I couldn't even take my computer with me, they turned it down at the airport and I had to send it home with family. Maybe they'll be able to ship it for me some day. In the end I was giving things away, throwing the last bits of my life into the dumpster just to be able to close out the apartment.
So much paperwork. ALL OF THE PAPERWORK! And so little guidance and no guarantees. I'm still waiting on things to be finalized and while there's no reason they shouldn't be, that uncertainty hangs over my head like a knife. Living on savings for now and they'll hold awhile, but inflation has hit here pretty hard, too. Everything is expensive. And now I'm so much farther away from any support systems I may have had.
I don't want to sound too thankless, this has been a wonderful opportunity. I love getting to see a new country and acclimate to a new culture. My head is a bit clearer without having all the politics cluttering it up but I assure you watching things from afar while I still have so many friends and family affected is no comfort at all.
It's not an easy out. It's not a golden ticket. For a lot of people it's just not an option at all. I'll die furious at what they've done to me, to my life, to my friends and everyone I love, to my country. Best I can hope for is some day I have more to bring home for the fight ...
Nope. Gonna fight it out here.
I've been living in Canada for a year now (grad school). Going to hope and work hard to see if engineering can pan out over here.
Norway or Sweden, but apparently I'm one generation away from being able to do so.
I don’t wish to but I’ve thought about it, mainly as an emergency exit in case I get targeted by state violence. But barring that I don’t plan to leave.
Unfortunately, I’m as home grown as they come so I don’t have any other citizenship I would qualify for. And with the level of anti-immigrant sentiment happening in most of the world right now, nowhere seems like a great option. But I’ll do what I have to do if the time comes.
For now, I’d rather keep resisting tyranny here though.
I personally like the culture of my community and am very happy here. If only the thugs would leave us alone things would be great. So having to learn another culture and possibly language to assimilate into doesn’t sound very appealing. I have lived abroad before and it’s harder than I thought it would be.
But I’ll do what I have to do if the time comes.
I may already be too late, depending on how much time it actually takes to secure an opportunity for immigration. e.g. do you even have a passport? Do you belong to one of the groups the government might start targeting? In my mind, it's clear the trump regime is going to start locking its people in, it's really common for dictatorships.
I would but I am 63, retired, and have 4 cats. My pension is tied to the state and my SS is tied to the USA. I am fucking stuck.
You can still collect you pension and SS even if you are abroad! Some places even have 'retirement visas'. 4 cats is tough for a big move, though, for sure.
Fuck
Moving to another country is a lot of work. Europe is stereotypically seen as having a lot of practical benefits like walkable cities and generally sane culture around stuff like healthcare. America is a big country though and blue states offer a lot of the same benefits.
Not really to the same levels, and federal fuckery seeps into everything nationwide.
Back alley abortions common in the EU? Because we're less than one lifetime from the age of septic pregnancy wards and could easily go back if mifepristone gets banned
EU passport seems like a good option.
Trouble is trying to find a job with transferable skills, being willing to pick up all my roots and move, and fitting into a community that speaks a different language, and 'jealous passport' countries that ask you to give up your US citizenship when you claim the new one.
Wish it was easier.
I did moved away from the states a long time ago, for reasons other then political fear. I mean I was afraid of what the US was turning in to but not like it is today. Finding a way to immigrate is a lot harder then it looks, but the EU isn't the only option. The second part is a lot harder then it sound and it some ways easier. Picking up a second language is easier in a country where everyone is already using it. The hardest part is getting most people to stop trying to practice their English on you and to let you practice you new language on them. And the fitting in isn't that hard if you are honestly excited about it. Don't grumble because this isn't the way you're used to doing it think of it as new chance to be part of the lucky 10,000 almost every day. But picking up your roots is harder then you think everyday I'm haunted by the fact I'll never see my old friends and my family again except through a tiny screen, never hug them, never cry on their shoulder, hell never even have them understand what my day was like because they don't understand all the cultural clues I do. I've lost frames of reference to my family and it's not something I really expected or would have been able to understand if did. It's weird / hard to have cultural gulfs between you and your family not to have a shared pool of reference.
I wish it was easier too, but I'm glad I did it every day.
Canada cause it's close. Netherlands cause of DAFT and bike infrastructure would be so nice
I moved to Portugal about three years back. Unrelated to politics, I just wanted a change. Life is overall much more peaceful and enjoyable here. Let me know if anyone has specific questions!
How did you manage to stay long term there? Which type of visa?
I’m here on the D8 Visa, which allows for self-employment, remote work and the like - just not taking a local job. I’m a freelance software developer so this was the correct type of visa, as I suspect it would be for a lot of Lemmings.
You can apply by mail within the US, you ultimately send your passport and a bunch of documents like your birth certificate to the Portuguese embassy in DC. In the end, you’ll get a visa in your passport that lets you enter Portugal for six months. Then once you’re here, you’ll ultimately go to the immigration agency and exchange it for a credit card sized residence title, kind of like a green card.
Any advice/tips for those looking to do the same?
It’s a wonderful place, so go for it! Advice: everything takes forever when dealing with their government, so don’t expect a fast process. Expect it to take 12 to 18 months to get your visa in hand. Start early!
What do you like most about the differences? Did you learn Portuguese / is it pretty common for locals to speak English? What is your favorite food there that's not as much a thing in the US?
Most people do speak English to some extent, but I have made a great effort to learn Portuguese and am now fluent. You won’t need to speak it to survive or run errands, but it makes a huge difference in terms of making friends and having a social life.
My favorite change is the slower pace of life. There is no rat race here. People work to live rather than live to work, and there’s always time for a glass of wine on a lazy afternoon.
This dish: https://leitesculinaria.com/7642/recipes-portuguese-eggs-salt-cod-potatoes-bacalhau-bras.html
I just spent a month there checking out Lisbon and Porto.
Definitely a lot of things that are different, some things better here or there, but I've only got a tiny perspective.
What are some of the things that surprised you over the long term. What are the worst parts of it?
Surprising: the high degree of safety and its effect on the local psyche. Because violent crime is virtually nonexistent, they aren’t ”calibrated" for danger and are prone to tell you that some place is really sketchy, but when you go there it’s fine, just maybe needs a fresh coat of paint.
Worst part: bureaucracy and government wait times. Need anything done? Go here and talk to this guy. Wait, that was wrong, it’s an online form. Wait, the online form doesn’t work. Call this number. Wait, no, go here and talk to this other guy. Then wait 6 months.
I need to learn Spanish or German or both. It’s possible I could get approved as a person of German descent, or I could just flee to Mexico/elsewhere in Latin America but I’d need to speak the language.
The strongest contenders for me would be Ireland or Spain.
My employer does remote work and they have their European HQ in Dublin. That combined with everyone speaking english seems close to ideal in terms of logistics.
As for Spain, they have a special Digital Nomad visa for remote workers, my wife and I took Spanish in high school, and my dad lives in Barcelona after having retired, due to the lower cost of living/healthcare, and also because his sister, my aunt, lives there too.
Ireland. Because I could. Issue is my wife can't handle change and it would be a hard thing to pull without the other person completely signing on. Honestly im not that motivated because I feel I would be abandoning the place and just stetting it up to be a problem for a lot of people. I mean anyone in the americas whos ancestry is abroad has to think about the native peoples. They got screwed and the only upside is being part of a relatively fair modern democratic country. Then you have to wonder what happens when everyone who is not looking to take advantage leaves. Not just domestically because trump has telegraphed all kinds of foreign military use. Then you gotta wonder if you will be useful to the new country. I mean im older. If that country was actually was at war maybe I would be useful given I still have some years of productive work left but in a status quo way its hard to say.
I emigrated in 2017 after coming back from the Peace Corps in Peru. After the 2016 election, I wanted out and don’t regret it. Many benefits, one of the main ones being not having to support the current government, and the work-life balance of course.
The wife and I would love to move but that for us would mean giving up every possession and going it from scratch. It's especially hard to think of because we were both hard times divorces 8 or so years ago and started over with literally nothing . 8 years and we've both built a life in an apartment and now have a hella cozy nest. I can't afford to move any of it to another country. We both aren't super specialists in our jobs either so that's not helping. Its gonna have to get pretty bad before we sell it all and leave on basically foot. Sadly I can't rule out this eventuality. Life sucks now.
Yeah. My wife and I bounced from the US 2 years ago. We cashed out our 401ks at the start of this year and bought a house. We're currently in the nightmare stage of remodeling where everything is twice as expensive as expected and takes 4 times as long as we were told. Outside of everything currently being hell, we feel it was the best decision we could have made.
These might help you choose a destination: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis
Canadas : because of the current political climate which I honestly don’t think will change until after I’m dead. Been fighting against it for almost 30 years now. I’m burnt out.
I have Italian heritage and might qualify for citizenship that way, but the rules have been changing.
I'm told Portugal and Spain are "easier", but language might be a problem. Ireland would be great, but I'm told that's hard.
I'm only a few years from retirement, so perhaps that may open doors.
Finally, my company is expanding into Europe, so I may be able to transfer.
I looked into it after the 24 election, Canada and a few European countries. The big impetus was RFK jr talking about how he was going to put the autists in labor camps, because my partner and I both have ASD diagnoses. Also genderfluid but fortunately there's no paper trail for that. But 1) it's a lot of work, 2) for better or for worse my skin color protects me from the worst of it and 3) my family is here, my friends are here, my farm animals are here, and I'll be god-damned if I'm gonna abandon them without a fight. Liberty or death ain't just a bumper sticker removed.
I think no, unless things get real real bad. Which they might. But maybe not even then. Honestly I have been thinking about this and I really don't want to leave.
Honestly, we did this shit. It's a crappy thing to turn this monster loose on the world and then peace the fuck out and let it do whatever it's going to do. We let it develop through inaction and apathy, it's our problem, we should stay and deal with it. Even the activist part of the US (which is small) is still not really having any kind of plan, just reacting and getting out and yelling sometimes. As far as I can see.
The one thing I really wish I could have is some kind of community that believes in the values I believe in. I think education is important, science is good, civic values are important to make everything a nice livable place. Honestly, things like this current spasm of fascism tend to have a pretty short shelf life (even if they manage to kill a bunch of people in the short span of years they're around). I am more afraid of what happens after, in a whole society which doesn't believe in education, doesn't have media that brings any kind of awareness of what is happening, is filled with people who don't give a fuck and don't care about each other. What happens when that society starts striking back to defend itself against the violence that's being visited on it now? What does it set up after? What country are we going to have when it's 2035, as climate change is really getting its hooks in? Are we going to just turn things back over to the Democrats and hope for the best? That doesn't sound good but I can't really forsee how anything else could happen. I would feel better if it was some decent people with a solid grasp of making a good place, like a lot of them and prominent in the country. If I felt like I could find those people, and get back to back with them for whatever is coming, I would feel a hell of a lot better about still being here. Honestly if I felt like those people existed somewhere else in the world that I knew about I would probably want more to leave. But for now at least, definitely for as long as I am safe here with my level of privilege, I feel like it is criminal to try to leave and not do anything about this fucking mess that we all made.
I would consider moving to Belize.
I've heard there is high levels of crime, but to be honest I haven't done a lot of research on this. Any comments on that?
If things go south in the US it’s unclear how safe anywhere in the Americas will be due to their hegemony.
I’d leave in a heartbeat. I wanted to leave the US well before all this madness. I know Italian pretty well and a little Spanish, so I was considering moving to a country that speaks either. I don’t really have any professional qualifications though, so I kinda worry I’d just be a poor foreigner wherever I went.
I want to move to Germany but I don't see it happening anytime soon
Canada. And not the typical "I'm running away to Canada!" that you usually hear, I've genuinely wanted to move to Canada since I was in middle school back in the early 2000s. I grew up in the mountains and cold climates are always my favorite so it wouldn't be a huge change. Canada is such a beautiful country too and I find it more culturally interesting than the US. I've always thought of Canada as the responsible and better put together sibling of the two (relatively speaking, of course. We all have our problems)
Unfortunately, I can't afford to live in the US or Canada right now so I'm kinda shit out of luck. Plus they all, and understandably so, hate Americans. I'm not worried about not being welcome, but more that It'd feel rude to show up after everything that has happened. Like your friend that ran over your dog but still wanted to come over and hang out. Minnesota is like half the price of where I live right now when it comes to housing so I feel like if I moved there I could get the best of both worlds. Who knows, maybe I'll do that instead.