Ask Lemmy

It doesn’t make logical sense. Why does the 3-4-5 triangle work out cleanly, and yet π and e are irrational? How can 0.999… and 1 be exactly the same number? Who cares about solving lost and unprovable theorems — how do these help anyone?

Someone who used to dislike it in school and university here.

Having to cram a lot of information and formulas, and then reproduce it without error for an exam. None of it made sense, and I wasn't even aware it was possible for it to make sense.

Only after many years did I understand it's all connected, there's a logic to it. It's possible to understand rather than just blindly learn.

Btw the notation really doesn't help.

I'll offer a different perspective. I'm actually really good at math, and I hated it in school because I didn't want to do dozens of homework problems because I already knew how to do it and it was pointless work.

And I didn't, which led to me having to take my tests sitting next to the teacher because she wouldn't believe I could make > 90% on the tests without doing any practice problems.

It’s hard for me to remember all of the different formulas and remembering when to use what.

I have a learning disability which affects my ability to understand math (discalculia). Its really hard to explain how it feels, but any time I do simple math in my head I can't keep track of the numbers and they are start to blink in and out. Its like having short term memory loss for the duration of the equation? Not sure if that makes sense. I can absolutely do the math, but its an uphill battle and I end up having a lot of anxiety because I think people will judge me for how long it takes. I have a lot of trouble with addition, subtraction and multiplication so, really, the very basics.

I think if I didn't have this condition I would probably really enjoy math. I didn't know about this when I was in high school so I don't know if they could have even helped me. I also had a math teacher for a couple of years who would literally throw a chair at the wall if you did something wrong or he thought you were playing stupid. So that certainly did not help the situation.

I don't think this applies to everyone but the major difference I have found between people who enjoy math and those who don't lies primarily in how they do math. People who don't like math usually learn and reproduce the subject by memorizing formulas and using them as tools to solve problems where as people who enjoy mathematics typically seek to understand why those formulas work and often rederive them. For the former who didn't take the time or was not interested in learning the laws that govern math, the subject is a slog of searching your tool box for the correct tool. Sometimes numerous times until you find the one that works, though often not knowing why it worked and the others did not. For the latter it is like a language they have become fluent in. The indentification of which tool they need has become second nature and they will sometimes design tools specific to their needs.

Edit: I saw all this from my experience as a physics major for most of my undergrad. This primarily comes from what I observed in other physics majors so this could be somewhat skewed info. I'm certain there are people who understood math from the roots up and still hated it. Puzzles like that aren't for everyone and I certainly got tired of it by the time I reached up level math.

The question is not aimed at me because I do like math (I have a degree in it), but I did want to comment on a possible reason.

One thing I heard in my math classes (shared with math education students) is that children are introduced to math by primary school teachers who are disproportionately skilled in language and arts rather than math and science. They impart their dislike of mathematics to their students.

I really enjoy what math does. When it applies to what I’m doing, I don’t mind even learning a new method. What killed me in school was math for math’s sake. They never explained where one might use the math. Trig was my favorite because almost every problem has a real-world use case that’s immediately apparent.

I find it hard to keep numbers in mind, and memorizing huge lists of numbers doesn't work well for me. I need a purpose, a story, a reason behind the numbers. I'm the weirdo who loves story problems.

I don't like busywork, running meaningless numbers for the sake of doing it is dull to me.

Probably all about the teaching. I understood maths up until we hit differential calculus. Then I didn’t understand what we were doing to numbers or why. And my teacher was incapable of explaining it.

I dont have issues with math, its helpful for [gestures broadly to everything].

You are right, how it was taught in schools (US) is a miserable failure. A focus on practical applications so the people can do their taxes and budgeting, understand probability and how statistics are used in reporting (and how they are misused), and spending more time on the metric system would go a long way.

I'm good at math, but I dislike it for the same reason I dislike cutting the grass: it's work and my ADHD brain doesn't get reward dopamine for accomplishing work.

I have a bit of dyslexia/dyscalculia so writing numbers from step to step often results in errors. I also had a bad teacher in 6th and 7th grade so I ended up with a lot of stress/shame which means I have a pretty significant gap in my understanding of concepts that has carried through every step of math since then.

Generally I like to ask a lot of questions in order to fully understand concepts. Additionaly maths are unintuitive to me. So, for me class moved to fast, I didn't dare to ask questions, because my classmates would assume you were dumb if you did, and my parent insulting me for my lack of understanding built resentment and the believe that maths simply aren't for me.

I read an article recently that explains that this believe further perpetuates the lack of understanding and that it's basically a downwards spiral. And it made sense to me. Not just in respect to maths, but school overall. I always assumed I was an idiot because my grades, my classmates, teachers, friends and parents suggested or deepened that believe. Now I am studying a field I am interested in and thrive, to the point that one teacher actually complimented my intelligence. and then everyone got up and applauded

So yeah, I agree. Given a relaxed environment to learn maths, I can absolutely see myself enjoying it. Even if it's just the teachers fascination rubbing off on me.

fanbase is cringe

I think a lot of it comes down to how people were taught math.

In my generation, it was almost all rote memorization. You memorize times tables. You memorize the steps to do long division. You memorize specific formulas. And then you have to draft it all into proofs to explain why things work, but you were never really taught why things work in the first place. The answer was always "It just does."

Rather than rote memorization, a better use of time for younger students is to focus more on the logic of math, to really get that "why" component before asking them to complete dozens of repetitive problems for homework.

Other parts of it might also just come down to entertainment value, to be honest. Here's where my perspective veers further into anecdote, but maybe it rings true for others, I don't know.

Learning about aphantasia was a new one for me. I don't have it, but I am acquainted with two people who do, and both of those people did well at math in school but hated history and literature. On the other hand, those were my favorite subjects, because being able to immerse myself in a story or put myself in a certain time and place made those subjects more bearable, sometimes fun.

It occurred to me that the way they felt reading books was probably a lot like how I felt doing math: just a lot of reading information on a page and memorizing important details to regurgitate later for some assessment or another. But for them, the logic of math probably made that subject easier to engage with than something as vague as an author's intent.

I hated math until about a year after I got into the trucking industry and realized I could use the math I had learned in school to make my job easier. Over time, I stopped needing the math and was able to just eyeball it, but it really helped for the first few years.

I'm good at math but I'm slow at it. I would need my own time to solve a problem. But school always needed it done in a very short amount of time.

I was told that mathematics was a language to describe world, but I was virtually never able to make the connection between what I was taught and real world applications, so it all seemed pointless, and I'm really bad at remembering things I don't understand and have a use for.

because it's so easy to get it wrong and very hard to get it right. there is NO room for error like there is in languages or social studies. If i make a typo or a grammatical mistake in an essay it's not the end of the world... in math it completely destroys you.

and it gets worse as it gets more advanced. my calc 3 + 4 bombed because I make a few simple mistakes here and there and it destroyed my entire exam. It sucked balls to work so hard only to end those classes with a C average because no matter how hard i studied i could make a simple error on the exam and derail my entire problem set.

most people do not have the capacity for detail that higher mathematics requires beyond arithmetic and basic algebra... and that's OK. I am not sure why calculus is required of high school students who aren't going into sciences either. A lot of people lose math in algebra 2 or pre calc and for good reason and I'm not sure they should be forced to take it.

I think USA in particular has horrible approach to education in general, and sciences and math especially because it forces so many people who dont' want to learn that stuff and are not good at learning it... to learn it and then it tells them they are stupid for not being good at it. And on the flips side... for people who are good at it it's seen as some inherent genetic trait, when it isn't.

programming is similar. i gave up on it after 3 courses when i realized i would waste hours of time only to later realize I had put a : instead of a ; and it had derailed the entire program.

conceptually i never struggled with math or programming. but i also have horrible 'innate' grammar/language as well from being born into a poor family. but making grammar errors on my papers never sunk my grades in college the way math errors did.

I enjoy solving problems and tinkering, in math class the problem were always way too theoretical. In physics that same math became interesting because it had an application.

I agree with you. I don't hate math, I just hate the way I was taught it. I'm not diagnosed, but I've long suspected I have ADHD or autism, and so anything that isn't interesting to me I tend to just obliterate from my mind. If I had been taught math through video games or game programming, or something like that, I would have paid more attention.

It happened again during college, with a professor just shouting his lessons, and not really giving any practical examples. I almost failed, until I went on YouTube and found many professors giving very good explanations, with visuals and such (this was almost 15 years ago, when YT was less algorithmic; even the comments were helpful).

I got tired of crying from anxiety from attempting to do math, and the teacher not understanding that I can't learn by just looking at other problems on the blackboard that I couldn't understand.

my brain functions different from most with math, and teachers couldn't adapt to how I needed to learn so I always broke down and was then ignored. never cared for math and just restored to calculators, even to this day. just can't do it.

I think for people like me, it isn't that we dislike math. It's that we dislike having to work out the formulas without there being much instruction on what the formula is doing. I want to know the theory behind it. Explain, at least once in a while, what is happening in the formula. Without context of what the calculations and formulas are doing (including refreshers on the basics) it starts to become just a jumble of meaningless numbers.

I find that my understanding of math is much better when I can see each step written out in long form. Once I understand what is happening, using the formulas is much easier.

If the instruction is just a string of memorization exercises, I will pass the test when it is given, but would I fail that same test just a few months later because I will have no context to give it meaning and I will forget most of it.

I don't dislike math but im better at shape oriented ones like geometry and calculus as opposed to algebra and differential equations. as far as basic stuff I like suduko and doing price per unit measurement at the store just to be somewhat practiced in it.

I think there's no way to tell if most people would enjoy math under the right circumstances but in my case you are absolutely right. Back in school I hated it, didn't wan't to find out more or even retain what I had to learn for tests.

That changed drastically when I studied philosophy. I learned about scholars there who "practiced" math in an almost spiritual way. Just by engaging with it, exploring this abstract world and uncovering its mysteries. Even if you don't take it quite this far philosophy and math are very closely related. It's probably gonna be tough for someone without a rough grasp of essential mathematical concepts to engage with metaphysics or formal logic.

Now that I'm a mechatronics technician I even need math in my day to day life, a lot more than I had ever anticipated. And I like it. I like how no matter how counterintuitive the method, if math says it works then it will. It's not just an abstract world of it's own, it's also woven into our world wherever you look.

I just don't care for it. I know it matters and makes up all our rules for the physical world and everything but it's not interesting to me. I'm much more interested in social/psychological studies of life, so math talk just flies over my head most of the time.

Also would agree with you about the educational system though. Growing up I was always held back and taken aside because I wasn't doing the math either fast enough or "the right way". I learned different tricks for multiplication than were taught at my school, but I would get to the correct answer. I was punished for this. It also shouldn't matter how fast you can do math, as long as you're getting the right answer. I fucking hated "math minutes" and had a lot of shitty teachers. Had some good ones too though.

Although i do like math, it's very easy for me to understand why someone wouldn't. Just think about any subject that you dislike, and now you know the approximate feeling of someone not liking math

Because through my game development career I learned to solve mathematical problems algorithmically, and my brain is just structured that way, I cannot do formulas. Well I can, but it takes active fighting against my brain structure.

In school, I liked anything related to geometry where there were shapes and things to look at (note that I liked it, not that I was good at it). Anything more abstract was just juggling numbers to me, it all meant nothing, I never knew why I was doing anything.

I took A Level Maths, and I just find it really tiring mentally far more than any other task I do, so after doing some practise and still having to do more, I found it draining and unpleasant. Some people say they enjoy the process, I just don't. I don't know exactly why, I just don't feel the same surge of pleasure that others do when they solve a problem I guess. I like programming though, which is applying maths, and I like being able to use maths to active my goals. I don't enjoy doing it for its own sake.

I had one of those old-school maths teachers who hates maths, teaching, and children.

Had to figure out on my own that maths can be fun and useful.

I’ve grown in appreciation for math in the last couple of years, especially when it comes to things that are necessary or practical in my day to day life.

I hated it in school though, mostly because of bad teachers, I think, and because it’s an area of study with cut and dry answers.

I always preferred subjects where there were many possible answers to a question, like philosophy and such.