If we see a child with no legs, we conclude they will never run(with the obvious objections out of the way). We should then be able to similarly imagine a mind that will never have the courage to kill themselves, or only after they have needlessly suffered for decades.
What the fuck are you talking about you inane little hitler
this response is almost definitely going to pop into my head the next time I unfortunately read Reddit posts
speaking of inane little hitlers, Reddit drug understander nootropic_expert (of course) sees nothing wrong with dosing kids without their consent:
As i'm antinatalist l wouldn't have a kid but lets try to answer that hypothetical Q.
So I would support my kid in funding whatever would sooth his existence. In 2023 I would try psychedelics and even chronic opioid usage if psychs wouldn't help.
dear reddit, as an antinatalist, [worst opinion you’ve ever seen omitted for brevity]
(with the obvious objections out of the way)
Rationality intensifying.
actually fuck it I want to revisit this: these people have convinced themselves thinking machines are right around the corner, and are simultaneously able to twist their brains into knots imagining a reality in which we don’t currently have advanced assistive devices and prosthetics that are constantly getting better?
like, I know there’s some bullshit gotcha “well you see, then the prosthetic’s running, not them” lurking here, and god damn would that be a fucking stance for the brain uploading any day now crowd to pull directly out of their ass
“Today I will display my mastery of LOGIC and PERSUASION by contriving a scenario in which one simply MUST mercy kill their adult progeny. The masses will PROSTRATE themselves before me in ADORATION. They will learn to REVERE and FEAR the magnitude of my brain.”
is definitely a normal one for an ssc user.
What is it about Reddit and this specific scenario? I've seen people talk about how the brutal truth is that disabled children are bad over and over again. If you challenge this, you're naive and possibly offensive. It's one of Reddit's weird fixations (see also: father's rights).
I think in a cultural landscape where we’ve been fed fascist male power fantasies for so long, it’s only natural that we’ve got a bunch of people who think it’s cool and good to be “brutal” and able to make “hard choices” and “doing what’s necessary” etc. That and reddit has historically always been besieged by fascist troll farms.
That and reddit has historically always been besieged by fascist troll farms.
oh absolutely, and it’s very funny when they try their typical bullshit here and on mastodon and it doesn’t work as they expect (at least for now — I’ve seen various attempts from these assholes to adjust their methods to work better on the fediverse)
Something something Sparta
I mean, this is bedrock nazi ideology. gotta purge those degenerates
This mensa person is also quite the idiot, thinks nazis are a race and has quite some opinions about racism (and joined the foreign legion). Check the submitted post history.
The foreign legion? Fuck me.....in fairness a relative of a relative also did this after a breakup but he quickly deserted.
He has some weird post about how there is no racism between nazis and black people (who he calls blacks) in the legion because they dunno all shout insults at each other and it is normal they go towards skin color first? 130 iq doesn't get the basics of racism. Really weird.
It's an alarmingly common occurrence in real life, so I don't think it should be surprising that it's also something people fantasize about.
That's the bitter truth isn't it. You'd think the raw and bloody reality would put people off.
For the purposes of this argument, near term AGI or promising clinical trials for depression are off the table.
FOX ONLY. FINAL DESTINATION. NO ~~ITEMS~~ ROBOT GODS.
Because that would be the first thing I thought of, "AGI." Like, my kid is really depressed; if we only had developed a robot who could think.
funny that, considering that we might be close to end of beating around the bush and there might be reasonable, solid mechanism of action for all known antidepressants https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/how-antidepressants-work-last
meaning there could be new antidepressants based on that mechanism in decade or so, removing many of limitations of the previous ones (and probably introducing a slew of new ones)
Rejoice, in the real world we are already euthanising young people who couldn't get over severe trauma in a few years.
that is a lot of suffering and I'm glad someone in that much pain can address it how they choose
i'm not
edit: i mean, to be less pithy; in the vast majority of these cases, "choice" is an illusion, there is intense pressure directed at the disabled and there is nothing to be glad about when you see a society offer death before they offer genuine help and accommodation. and i don't even want to contemplate the particular politics of this one.
yeah, the pithyness about your preference having had control over my life is not really appreciated. I understand your point of view tho
I understand that it's a touchy subject but my point is that it's a political issue and not a question of mere personal preference. It infuriates me the way this subject is treated outside of disability activists so I'll recuse myself here. Apologies.
whose personal preferences are or are not permitted to be carried out is in part what politics is, so I certainly wasn't claiming it's 'not political' or in your slightly diminutive phrasing "mere personal preference." nor am I unaware of the history on this, or the individual realities of parents etc killing their charges, or of the systemic realities of all sorts of types, especially capitalists, being perfectly happy to substitute killing people off for support. none of that justifies trivializing intense suffering with flip comments like "oh she didn't get over it after a few years." that's an unbelievably callous description of how painful just existing can be for some people, and it's personally shocking to me how lightly you treat taking away something that would have spared a younger me from a whole lot.
This is gonna sound stupid, especially because I'm in too much pain right now to be able to find my words right to better explain myself and my thoughts, but I wanted to say I appreciate you. And agree with you. And I'm sorry you've suffered so much.
Imagine that you are a parent, and your child has the misfortune of developing chronic depression at a young age. Their depression resists all forms of treatment, and they live in near constant pain.
Mom and Dad breaking out the potassium chloride when you listen to too much Elliott Smith and refuse to smile for the family Christmas photo.
A post in the style of 'we should allow the Chatgpt say slurs else it will cause nuclear armageddon' there the premise 'slurs/justified murder of people I dislike' is picked first and then people rationalize back to support that argument no matter how dumb and horrible their thinking actually becomes. Discussing with somebody like this is imho useless as they just think they should be allowed to 'say slurs'/'murder people'.
Holy shit the rationalists have really turned it up lately
Acausal fucking robot god, what did I just read?
Hurling ordure at the TREACLES, especially those closely related to LessWrong.
AI-Industrial-Complex grift is fine as long as it sufficiently relates to the AI doom from the TREACLES. (Though TechTakes may be more suitable.)
This is sneer club, not debate club. Unless it's amusing debate.
[Especially don't debate the race scientists, if any sneak in - we ban and delete them as unsuitable for the server.]