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I'm talking in the context of the "capitalist rules". If you say the aforementioned sentence, you remove the responsibility of the player by dismissing the fact that the winner makes the rules.

PS: Doesn't work for every context: if the player aims to change the rules because he doesn't like them, he might see winning as a way to change them. "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" I guess...

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[-] zeppo@lemmy.world 123 points 8 months ago

That’s the entire point of the phrase, as far as how I’ve always interpreted it: don’t blame people for doing what’s best for them within a system they don’t control.

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 23 points 8 months ago

I can hate both. Morality is not subject to the whims of legislation. If you're a billionaire, you've done something immoral. Playing "within the rules" does not absolve you of all morality.

[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 19 points 8 months ago

The reason that doesn't make sense, is billionaires are the only ones with the power to fix the economic system thru political donations.

The saying isn't meant for your example, because they're not just players. Their also the refs and the ones who wrote the rules for the game.

Like:

It is what is

That makes sense if said between prisoners about how shitty jail is. But if a prison guard beat an inmate and then said that, it doesn't make sense.

Just because it's not true 100% of the time for 100% of people doesn't mean it's worthless. By that logic no phrase should exist

[-] zeppo@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

I agree, I've said that about this phrase before! I can hate the player too. Not one of my favorite maxims.

[-] intensely_human@lemm.ee 5 points 8 months ago

Legislation is not the only game being referred to by this saying.

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[-] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 4 points 8 months ago

If a game inevitably leads to billionaires unless you can count on all individuals being moral people, I take the liberty of hating the game that sets things up like that.

[-] Mango@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

Clearly these people are unfamiliar with the prisoner's dilemma.

[-] Jeknilah@monero.town 8 points 8 months ago

And what do you know about Nash Equilibriums?

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[-] someguy3@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

Legality is not the same as moral or ethical. The rules of life, civility, and good society are not preordained. Aka we make our own norms and values.

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[-] kjPhfeYsEkWyhoxaxjGgRfnj@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

In this particular context regulatory capture and political donations is the unseen bullshit of the claim. Corporations DO make the rules

[-] Empricorn@feddit.nl 2 points 8 months ago

The system is large and powerful. However, it's perpetuated by individuals. Apathy is a lack of empathy...

[-] Donebrach@lemmy.world 38 points 8 months ago

You are literally defining the meaning of the phrase. That is not a shower thought.

[-] quams69@lemmy.world 15 points 8 months ago

Two hundred up votes, dont hate the player hate the game

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[-] ViscloReader@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Well, I thought of it while taking a shower so...

[-] Jaysyn@kbin.social 15 points 8 months ago

Yes.

Just like "it is what it is", that statement is a "thought terminating cliche" and that is what it's doing.

[-] OlinOfTheHillPeople@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago
[-] intensely_human@lemm.ee 1 points 8 months ago

Is labeling a phrase a “thought-terminating cliche”, a thought-terminating cliche?

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[-] IuseArchbtw@feddit.de 10 points 8 months ago

Yes, but the game is the problem. That's why the ecological footprint is problematic, it pushes the responsibility towards individuals rather than changing laws.

[-] Iapar@feddit.de 9 points 8 months ago

I always reply that I hate both.

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[-] quams69@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

It occurs to me that a great many sayings exist for the speaker to self justify their own actions

[-] L0rdMathias@sh.itjust.works 6 points 8 months ago

The player's job is to play optimally; the rules dictate what is and isn't optimal play. Not just limited to capitalism, this concept is a big part of game theory.

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[-] HowManyNimons@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Yup, that's why people say it. "I'm an arse hole, but what do you expect?"

[-] dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net 5 points 8 months ago

My first thought after hearing that saying 20-something years ago was “the player perpetuates the game.”

If people refuse to play, there is no game to hate.

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[-] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Playing the game is a choice.

[-] lugal@sopuli.xyz 4 points 8 months ago

Working to pay rent and stuff is a choice?

[-] intensely_human@lemm.ee 3 points 8 months ago

Duh. You could just lie down and die, but here you are choosing to eat and drink and sleep.

You silly goose, so fixated on surviving.

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[-] Dadifer@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Learn to recognize systemic problems rather than personnel problems.

[-] JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

These are the shower thoughts I have. Got a whole ass manifesto cooking up there.

[-] dumpsterlid@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The definition of fascism at the end of the day is "fuck you, I have mine, stop complaining because you are a loser". Yes, fascism is the extreme end point of that view but ultimately that is what fascism is. Who cares what is fair, the losers are losers and the winners are winners and fascists are 0% interested in examining that any closer no matter how arbitrary or stupid the set of rules that determined the winners or losers are.

I hate the phrase "don't hate the player, hate the game". I'll hate the player too lol. You know what playing a sport where bad behavior is technically possible and in the best interests of a player to do, but a player refuses to do it because of a love of the sport and the desire to be a good opponent? It is called good sportsmanship. Sports/videogames are miserable experiences when it is just ruthlessly competitive people playing who will exploit any advantage, fair or not and have zero interest in sportsmanship. Is there a broken mechanic or rule? These types of people will exploit it over and over and over and over again and just keep saying "don't hate the player hate the game" even though it is them, the player, actively making a choice to make the experience miserable for everyone else.

[-] intensely_human@lemm.ee 2 points 8 months ago

I think you just made that definition of fascism up.

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this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
178 points (81.1% liked)

Showerthoughts

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A "Showerthought" is a simple term used to describe the thoughts that pop into your head while you're doing everyday things like taking a shower, driving, or just daydreaming. The best ones are thoughts that many people can relate to and they find something funny or interesting in regular stuff.

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