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submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by dgerard@awful.systems to c/buttcoin@awful.systems

that drop was one hour after the latest billion tethers

the new narrative is apparently that the pump is in 90 days when financial advisors are finally ready to push bitcoin ETFs on their customers (for some reason)

ETFs put bitcoin on steroids!! y'know, asthmatic with shrunken balls

the bitcoin market is fake and in tethers, but the retail securities market is real and in dollars

my brother in Satoshi, you are the exit liquidity

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[-] swlabr@awful.systems 1 points 10 months ago

I don’t understand how this could be failing. Before, if you wanted to buy shitcoins, you’d have to look for them individually and buy them one by one. Now with ETFs you can buy all the shitcoins all at once. What’s not to love? /s

[-] yggstyle@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago

Anyone who was stoked about this has no idea how ETFs work. This was one of the single worst things that could have been done to digital currency... and that is factoring in the exchanges and rampant fraud.

[-] mountainriver@awful.systems 0 points 10 months ago

I have next to no idea how ETFs work. I just assumed it wouldn't send people into a deflating bubble.

Care to share how it's actually deflating the bubble faster?

[-] corbin@awful.systems 0 points 10 months ago

I scrolled too far up and motherfucking Lemmy ate my fucking comment. Fuck this Web 2.0 garbage. You get a shorter reply, yay. Also I'm not re-linking everything; search Wikipedia for anything confusing, like "futures market" or "spot market" or "basket of goods."

A commodity futures ETF is a way to improve the arbitrage that an individual investor experiences, while also reducing their exposure to spot markets. In particular, an investor only holds shares in a fund, and the fund does the actual trading; also, the fund only trades futures, although they do typically have a "basket" which holds physical commodities at a secure location.

For example, I hold shares of precious-metals ETFs. This means that, unlike e.g. somebody who has gold coins in their safe at home, I have to trust that the ETF managers will still exist tomorrow and that the financial system will still honor their contracts; this is technically increased risk. But in exchange, I don't have to physically receive and store any precious metals, and also I get theoretically better returns due to the implicit arbitrage in futures markets.

Fun fact: BTC is overpriced, mostly from grifters and miners pumping and hyping the market. However, arbitrage sees overpriced commodities as an opportunity, and a futures ETF can produce value for its investors merely by insisting that the commodity should be valued less. This is also why the spot ETFs were not approved by SEC; the spot market for BTC is quite volatile and it's not clear that a BTC spot trader would produce value for investors.

[-] swlabr@awful.systems 0 points 10 months ago

My intuition (and the sneer I wrote) is that basically crypto has historically been a free market of grift and fraud. Any attempts to launder or legitimise crypto trading via regulation and policing is just gonna drive the non-believing profiteers away. Is that anywhere close to the truth?

[-] gerikson@awful.systems 1 points 10 months ago

Yeah, that's my take too.

Crypto has a "base utility" for illegal activity. Say the price for BTC based on that is 10% of the current inflated price. Integrating BTC into the traditional financial market would in the near term drive down the price closer to the "base price", as well as closing off a number of avenues to add "dirty" money into the system.

this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2024
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