EV sales plummet after clean car scheme scrapped (newsroom.co.nz)

submitted 8 months ago by BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz to c/newzealand@lemmy.nz

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[-] lightnegative@lemmy.world 18 points 8 months ago

Meh, most of the BEV's available are big inefficient wallowing SUV's with hefty price tags regardless of the clean car discount.

I'm hoping some of the Chinese manufacturers will bring affordable sedan or station wagon BEV's to the market. Lighter, better aerodynamics, more range for the same battery size.

Not interested in hybrids, the worst of both worlds

[-] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 6 points 8 months ago

I just cannot bring myself to trust my life to a Chinese car.

I have done business there. I know what it's like. It does not fill me with confidence.

[-] FMT99@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Also it's one thing to be spied on by ad companies (which is bad enough) but quite another to be spied on by an adversarial dictatorship.

[-] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 2 points 8 months ago

Exactly. Same reason I won't use Chinese brand phones.

[-] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago

That seems like a silly worry to me. I would be more concerned about what my own country or a corporation or the USA could do to me than China. Think about it. The USA could charge me with something like copyright violation and boom I get arrested just like that. China accuses me of a crime and the government won't do shit.

[-] FMT99@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea. You should absolutely be vigilant against your own government as well. But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That's not a silly worry, it's a daily occurrence.

[-] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago

While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea

Did you mean say "foreign entity" or "China". Because we already give that information to a foreign entity, multiple foreign agencies in fact.

But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That’s not a silly worry, it’s a daily occurrence.

It's a silly worry for me because I am not a chinese dissident living abroad.

[-] FMT99@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Well that's up to you. I'm no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you'll understand if I take it more personally. China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.

[-] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 2 points 8 months ago

Well that’s up to you. I’m no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you’ll understand if I take it more personally.

Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?

China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.

I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don't think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.

[-] FMT99@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?

I haven't heard of people being abducted from Taiwan, but friends were detained while transferring flights in Hong Kong over some China-critical social media posts.

... have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have

Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I've never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn't, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.

Look if you say "I'm not involved, it's not my problem" that's fair enough. But to say there's no difference between the US (which I fully acknowledge does lots of bad things) and China is missing the plot a bit.

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[-] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago

Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?

In Taiwan itself? No. When they transit through China, or friendly countries? Yes, emphatically.

I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don't think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.

You would be wrong about most of this. The Chinese government has one of the most sophisticated spying networks in the world. Remember this: all large Chinese companies have CCP officers with complete access to all information.

I feel like you haven't been to the US. Companies collect personal info, yes, but the US government isn't out there wiretapping the entire world. Real life isn't like the CIA movies, mate.

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[-] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago

I'm sure they won't do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don't have to?

Corporations spy on us too, and this is motivated by profit. The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.

[-] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 2 points 8 months ago

I’m sure they won’t do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don’t have to?

You are doing that now though.

The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.

I am not a chinese expat though. I have literally zero concern that China is going to get me or do anything to me let alone care about me.

OTOH I am very afraid to attend a protest or even accidentally cross the street during a protest because I know I will go on some list and my face will be recorded by our own government.

[-] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago

You are doing that now though.

I trust the NZ government a lot more than the CCP, and you should too.

I am not a chinese expat though. I have literally zero concern that China is going to get me or do anything to me let alone care about me.

Neither am I, but I can recognize the terrible actions taken by that government, and not want to support it in any way.

OTOH I am very afraid to attend a protest or even accidentally cross the street during a protest because I know I will go on some list and my face will be recorded by our own government.

Why? Are you seriously trying to compare the New Zealand, or any western government, to the CCP? If you are, then I seriously doubt you understand quite how bad the CCP is.

[-] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago

I trust the NZ government a lot more than the CCP, and you should too.

Depends on the topic. I trust NZ government more than the CCP in most things but I fear the NZ government more than I fear the CCP because the NZ government exercises more power over me than the CCP does.

BTW why do you keep ignoring the other evil empire in the picture? I trust the US government less than I trust both the NZ government and the CCP.

Neither am I, but I can recognize the terrible actions taken by that government, and not want to support it in any way.

Cough Israel, cough Saudi Arabia.

Why?

Because I don't want to be on the list of known dissidents the government keeps.

Are you seriously trying to compare the New Zealand, or any western government, to the CCP?

Yes.

If you are, then I seriously doubt you understand quite how bad the CCP is.

As bad as they are they can not exert any power over me. OTOH both the NZ government and the US government can exert tremendous amount of power over me.

This is not a contest of who is worse the USA wins that hands down. This is a contest of who can harm me personally the most and who I should be afraid of the most.

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[-] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago

You probably trust your life to chinese made parts in your current car.

[-] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 2 points 8 months ago

Absolutely, but those are parts which are subject to overseas QA, standards and testing. For example, I have a Toyota. Chinese made parts must meet their strict quality control, must adhere to safety standards, etc.

I know first hand that, in China, regulations and standards can be bypassed with the correct payments. I do not trust that they have not done so, especially when there are other, better, choices.

We are talking about a country that has things like Melamine laced baby formula quite frequently. How did these things pass regulators and testing? Bribary.

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[-] Dave@lemmy.nz 5 points 8 months ago

Nio seems to be the one making waves that no one in NZ has heard of as they don't operate here. They are doing the Tesla promise of swapable batteries for real life, with a network of swap stations. Imagine buying a car and knowing you can in future swap the battery for a longer range one, one with better health, not to mention long range batteries from empty to fully charged in minutes.

[-] eagleeyedtiger@lemmy.nz 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The only reason I've heard of Nio was because I bought shares in them a couple of years ago. I sold when I doubled my money, which looks like it was a good move considering how low it is now!

[-] stoy@lemmy.zip 3 points 8 months ago

Tom Scott made a video where he tested an automatic swap station:

https://youtu.be/hNZy603as5w

[-] thevoyagekayaking@lemmy.nz 3 points 8 months ago

He also mentions the company is hemorrhaging money at the moment.

[-] stoy@lemmy.zip 4 points 8 months ago

Yeah, that is normal for a VC funded company

[-] Dave@lemmy.nz 1 points 8 months ago

That's awesome! I hadn't seen that video before. Looks pretty impressive, though I'd be curious for more details about the subscriptions. Do you get charged for use or whether you use it or not?

[-] thevoyagekayaking@lemmy.nz 2 points 8 months ago

You lease the battery pack from them, from my understanding, so yes.

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[-] stoy@lemmy.zip 2 points 8 months ago

PHEVs are the best of both worlds for me living in an apartment with limited charging capacity.

We have two shared charges for PHEVs, they can be used for four hours maximum per day, this means that I can drive in EV mode to and from the shops as well as to my parents house, if I need to go further, I turn on Hybrid mode and it gives me great milage for a long time.

[-] RegalPotoo@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago

I can't imagine why increasing the price of something by $7000 would suppress demand for it

[-] BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz 2 points 8 months ago

Nobody in this government understands economics apparently.

[-] RegalPotoo@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Oh I'm pretty sure they do. The intended outcome was achieved

[-] AnAngryAlpaca@feddit.de 7 points 8 months ago

I would imagine that people in the market for an EV would have bought it already last december, before the funding was cancelled.

[-] gibberish_driftwood@lemmy.nz 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

My thoughts too. From memory sales of double cab utes also surged immediately before and plummeted immediately after the prices went up as expected due to their high emissions.

[-] RegalPotoo@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

I had a BEV on the budget for late this year (move banks to get a low-interest loan + some savings once the mortgage comes off fixed), isn't practical with the price increase, so will back burner that plan for a couple of years and hope prices drop a bit