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this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
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Fuck off with your pro Russian headline which doesn’t match the article.
Ukraine has a responsibility to make sure US and foreign support isn’t wasted and they’re doing just that.
Human garbage such as yourself is precisely the reason this war is still ongoing and hundreds of thousands of people are dead. If you want Russians to die so bad then go sign up for the foreign legion and fight yourself instead of shitposting here you deplorable piece shit.
I don't think the person you're replying to is responsible for hundreds of thousands of people dying my man. Calm down. If you're angry at all the unnecessary deaths, point your energy at Putin.
Every single person who supports continuation of this war is responsible for the people dying in this war. Meanwhile, pointing your energy at Putin while living in the west is idiotic because you have zero influence on Putin. What you have influence on is your own deplorable regime that's fueling the continuation of this war.
The war continues because Russia remains in Ukraine. All Russia has to do is withdraw from Ukraine and needless death of both sides ends.
My "deplorable regime" is helping Ukraine from defending itself from aggressors that's trying to take control of the country, that the Ukrainian people clearly don't want. The Ukrainians don't want to continue this war. They'd love it to stop right now. But they can't because Russia remains in their country. And don't forget which country constantly launches rocket attacks against civilians since day 1 of this war. Literally the first day, Russian troops have opened fire on civilians, with orders to kill everyone.
If you think Ukraine should give up fighting to stop any deaths is insane as all Russia has to do is then continue its march into Ukraine. Why would Russia stop if Ukraine doesn't resist? The entire world would be chaos if nobody defended their homeland, all it would take is a single aggressor to start a war and nobody would stop them.
Imagine if Britain, Russia and the US had surrendered to nazi Germany and Japan to prevent deaths in their respective cities. That's basically your argument.
I wonder what your motivation for supporting Russia is in this. Are you a paid Russian troll? Or just attention starved in the real world so you need to have a contrary opinion to get any kind of attention?
Edit: it's also kind of suspicious that any time a user from two specific instances they get upvoted multiple times almost instantly.
Russia isn't going to leave, and nothing the west has done got Ukraine closer to winning the war. What the west has achieved was to drag this war out and ensure that countless people died in the process. If anything, the west ensured that Ukraine is in a far worse position now than it was in March last year when US and UK sabotaged negotiations.
If still you think that Ukraine can win this war then you need to start engaging with reality. Your whole rant is premised on a nonsensical assumption that Ukraine can win. Meanwhile, comparing this to WW2 shows stunning amounts of historical illiteracy and utter lack of understanding in regards to causes of this war.
Finally, nowhere have I supported Russia in anything here. What I've explained to you is the objective reality of the situation. The fact that you see this in black and white terms of either supporting the west using Ukraine as a proxy in a war with Russia or supporting Russian invasion shows that you have infantile understanding of the world. Your childish insults are a further indication of your stunted mental development.
Your reactions to other people and your blaming of western nations very clearly puts you in the position of supporting Russia. You've not once admitted that Russia is to blame for the countless deaths. that it has caused in its aggression. Instead you keep trying to twist it on everyone else for having the absolute-fucking-audacity of defending themselves. I mean, how dare they fight for their nations survival and independence!
This is probably one of the very few conflicts in recent times where this war is black and white. There's a very clear aggressor. This entire war is utterly pointless. It's not difficult to see how Russia is the aggressor here.
No, that puts me in a position of having actual understanding of the situation and reality of the war instead of regurgitating western propaganda the way you're doing.
Where were you when these people were trying to defend themselves as reported by CNN, and where were you when this was happening?
It's not, and only an ignoramus or a propagandist would claim that. Your whole narrative based on the fallacy of homogenizing Ukraine. Let's take a look at a few slides from this lecture that Mearsheimer gave back in 2015 to get a bit of background on the subject. Mearsheimer is certainly not pro Russian in any sense, and a proponent of US global hegemony. First, here's the demographic breakdown of Ukraine:
here's how the election in 2004 went:
this is the 2010 election:
As we can clearly see from the voting patterns in both elections, the country is divided exactly across the current line of conflict. Furthermore, a survey conducted in 2015 further shows that there is a sharp division between people of eastern and western Ukraine on which economic bloc they would rather belong to:
Ukraine is clearly not some homogeneous blob, but a large country with complex cultural and ethnic situations.
Furthermore, the idea that NATO threatens Russia doesn't come from Russia. Plenty of western experts have been saying this for many decades. This only became controversial to mention after the war started. Here's what Chomsky has to say on the issue recently:
https://truthout.org/articles/us-approach-to-ukraine-and-russia-has-left-the-domain-of-rational-discourse/
https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-us-military-escalation-against-russia-would-have-no-victors/
50 prominent foreign policy experts (former senators, military officers, diplomats, etc.) sent an open letter to Clinton outlining their opposition to NATO expansion back in 1997:
George Kennan, arguably America's greatest ever foreign policy strategist, the architect of the U.S. cold war strategy warned that NATO expansion was a "tragic mistake" that ought to ultimately provoke a "bad reaction from Russia" back in 1998.
Jack F. Matlock Jr., US Ambassador to the Soviet Union from 1987-1991, warning in 1997 that NATO expansion was "the most profound strategic blunder, [encouraging] a chain of events that could produce the most serious security threat [...] since the Soviet Union collapsed"
Even Gorbachev warned about this. All these experts were marginalized, silenced, and ignored. Yet, now people are trying to rewrite history and pretend that Russia attacked Ukraine out of the blue and completely unprovoked.
And of course, RAND published a whole study titled extending Russia where it proposes to use Ukraine as a western proxy the way is being done now. You're either a shill or a useful idiot for the empire, either way not a good look.
The ethnic makeup of Ukraine and it's election results is absolutely none of Russia's business and it's gives it no excuse to attack Ukraine. Ukraine is a sovereign nation, what happens internally is of no consequence of Russia. In the end, Ukraine ousted Yanukovych after it turned out he was in Putin's pocket and fucked off to Russia. The people decided they didn't want to align with Russia and Putin realised he was losing influence of the country he thinks should be under Russian control.
You still haven't replied to my point about whether Russia or other nations should have surrendered when they were attacked by axis powers. They fought back against aggressive tyrants and kept their land at huge costs. Ukraine are very much in the right to do the same.
Of course that's bad. There's a good reason why cluster munitions are banned and I'm against the US supplying them to Ukraine. In retrospect though this is virtually a none issue (it was used against Russian invaders and not civilians) given the terrorist attacks Russia launched against the civilian population, bombing hospitals, targeting apartment blocks, stealing Ukrainian children, raping and murdering their way through the country. I'm sure someone as intelligent and with a balanced view will be constantly denouncing the atrocities that they've caused and calling out Russia for its war crimes, and calling for them to stop the attacks.
The NATO crap isn't even worth discussing and is just a flimsy excuse from Russia to try and justify the "special military operation". Ukraine isn't even in NATO but Russia has done a damn good job of promoting the organisation. Former Soviet countries have joined or want to join precisely because of the behaviour exhibited by Russia. It's their sovereign right as independent country to decide if they join, it's none of Russia's business.
After the western sponsored coup in 2014 the eastern regions of Ukraine wanted to separate and Ukraine has been in a civil war since then. What Russia did is actually directly modelled on what NATO did in Yugoslavia where they recognized the independence of the breakaway regions and then had them invite NATO for help. That's literally the precedent that you NATO chuds set.
The point where you're trying to compare people of eastern Ukraine fighting for independence from the coup regime that was shelling them with cluster munitions to nazis? If you don't understand why that's an idiotic comparison, then what else is there to say to you.
Oh, it's bad, but the people the coup regime was shelling apparently don't get a right of self determination according to you.
Actual geopolitical experts disagree, but I guess you think you know better because you've demonstrated such deep understanding of the subject in this thread. Fun fact is that Russia wanted to join NATO in the 90s and NATO told Russia to fuck off after which point NATO went on to invade a bunch of countries such as Yugoslavia, Libya, and Syria and continued to surround Russia militarily.
You're an ignoramus and you should be deeply ashamed of yourself.
Who provided Ukraine with cluster ammo and depleted uranium ammo that will infect their own soil and people for decades to come
Keep hoping. Better yet, go there and fight yourself if you think it's so important. But you won't. You'll just move your outrage to the next target that US propaganda will point you to.
we need a banhammer emoji, specifically for these instances
Correct, they are doing just that: wasting the support they've been given.
You lost, get over it
Yes, we know you libs dream of Russian genocide, but you can keep dreaming.
Why do you think Russia deserves the land it invaded?
There was a referendum in the Donbass and people voted to join Russia. Much like happened with Alsace and Lorraine. I'm sorry but we salute the red 🇰🇵 white 🇨🇺 and blue 🇱🇦 here if you don't like democracy you can fuck off back to lemmy.
Anything is better than to live under nazi rule.
what're your thoughts on the US bombing of panama city?
Having thoughts is probably too much to expect from a NAFO bot.
Whataboutism is your best defense, and a poor attempt at that?
Equating the two is hilarious. Even so I’m not excusing all the bullshit the US has done.
At least I can say the US has done some terrible shit without getting arrested or killed. Try saying anything bad about Russia or Putin in Russia.
Huh??? what the hell do you think Assange did?
Leaking confidential information, as damning as it may be, is illegal.
Again, try saying anything bad about Putin or Russia in Russia. At least I can speak freely and scream from the rooftops about the shitty parts of the US. Go ahead.
Assange didn’t do anything illegal but even if he did you might as well be saying “criticizing Putin may the right thing do, but it’s illegal so you shouldn’t do it.”
no, he didn't leak shit, he published leaked information what the hell.
and you can only do that right now because the ruling class isn't concerned about possible socialist revolution, I advise you to read up on the 1st and 2nd Red Scares!
(also, who fucking cares if you can complain about something if you can't actually change the situation???)
So when a cop kills an innocent person I’m just not supposed to be upset?
Again, I can spread the word and my viewpoint and not be arrested/killed, at least legally. It’s not like Biden or Trump could have had me killed for saying it.
in awe at this one. Once again, if they think you're a threat to state power do you think they give a single flying fuck about what's legal/illegal? do you think what's being done to Assange is actually legal? he didn't leak anything, he just published information given to him. Once again, if the there was a serious socialist threat to this country I promise you would be arrested/killed no matter what if it became known you were a vocal dissident, legality be damned
So when a cop kills an innocent person I’m just not supposed to be upset?
Again, I can spread the word and my viewpoint and not be arrested/killed, at least legally. It’s not like Biden or Trump could have had me killed for saying it.
The Uhuru House publically opposed the war effort in Ukraine and got raided, then had a bunch of their members locked up for allegedly being in cahoots with Russians. By default, your bullshit's refuted.
dang putin must have snipers everywhere to enforce that
He probably would if he could.
Damn the butthurt Russians are out in force today.
If you say that to point the hypocrisy in someone's statement is a fallacy then everyone can just blame each other for basically anything and nothing constructive comes out.
Oh you drink water? Hitler did too. What do you mean everyone drinks water? That's whataboutism
Whataboutism is just a rhetorical device trolls try to use to create a double standard for themselves and everyone else when faced with the fact that their side does all the same things they accuse others of. Meanwhile, imagine being such an utter ignoramus to be unaware of all the political violence that US does.
No, it’s because two wrongs don’t make a right. You can point out shit the US has done all day and I’ll probably agree with you. But it doesn’t make what Russia did okay.
Yeah whataboutism is fucking retarded. It’s no excuse or justification. It’s shit.
No, it’s because two wrongs don’t make a right. You can point out shit the US has done all day and I’ll probably agree with you. But it doesn’t make what Russia did okay.
Yeah whataboutism is fucking retarded. It’s no excuse or justification. It’s shit.