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submitted 8 months ago by girlfreddy@lemmy.ca to c/news@lemmy.world

Brandon O’Quinn Rasberry, 32, was shot in the head in 2022 while he slept at an RV park in Nixon, Texas, about 60 miles (97 kilometers) east of San Antonio, investigators said. He had just moved in a few days before.

The boy’s possible connection to the case was uncovered after sheriff’s deputies were contacted on April 12 of this year about a student who threatened to assault and kill another student on a school bus. They learned the boy had made previous statements that he had killed someone two years ago.

The boy was taken to a child advocacy center, where he described for interviewers details of Rasberry’s death “consistent with first-hand knowledge” of the crime, investigators said.

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[-] RegalPotoo@lemmy.world 53 points 8 months ago

Don't know about US law, but where I live we have a "Preventative Detention Order" - the threshold for it is very high, but it essentially works as a sentence of "until rehabilitated", you are incarcerated until the court decides that you are no longer a threat to the community, even in cases where a life without parole sentence wouldn't be possible. In a world where I am supreme ruler, it'd automatically apply in cases where someone who has a conviction for a violent crime commits another violent crime.

Also, how the hell does an 8 year old get a gun? Surely whoever failed to secure it - or even worse gave it to a minor - would be looking at an accessory change?

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 46 points 8 months ago

Rehabilitation doesn't happen in the U.S. It's entirely about punishment.

If you're in prison here, you deserve it. Even if you're innocent.

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 41 points 8 months ago

Also, how the hell does an 8 year old get a gun? Surely whoever failed to secure it - or even worse gave it to a minor - would be looking at an accessory change?

Stole it from the glovebox of his grandfathers truck, it's in the article.

But even if the glovebox was locked, if you have the keys to get into the truck, you have the keys to open the glovebox.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 11 points 8 months ago

I hope the grandfather faces consequences as well.

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 0 points 8 months ago

Kid shot the other dude while he was asleep, so it could be the kid got up in the middle of the night, took the keys to the truck, and unlocked the gun.

I can't see how you could hold grand dad accountable. Nobody could predict an 8 year old that psychopathic. :(

[-] prole@sh.itjust.works 30 points 8 months ago

Yeah, literally no way this could have been prevented 🙄

[-] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 22 points 8 months ago

Aren’t there any laws regarding safe gun storage?

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago

In Texas?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.13

"IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE, TRANSPORT, OR ABANDON AN UNSECURED FIREARM IN A PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE LIKELY TO BE AND CAN OBTAIN ACCESS TO THE FIREARM."

But then:

"(3) 'Secure' means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means."

So, placing the gun in a locked glovebox in a locked car would be securing it as far as Texas is concerned.

Further:

"(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence:

(1) failed to secure the firearm; or

(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the child's access to the firearm:

(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;

(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people or property;

(3) was gained by entering property in violation of this code; or"

So under c3 - The kid stealing the keys and getting the gun anyway would seem to exonerate grand dad.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 7 points 8 months ago

If I put a gun in a safe and keep the key readily available to anyone, it's not safely stored.

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

"Take steps a resonable person would take."

That's a low bar.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 months ago

Yeah, and a reasonable person would realize that putting it in a vehicle the kid can easily unlock isn't safe, if that's how they wanted to store their firearm they should have kept the key in their bedside table during the night, like they would if it had been stored in an actual gun safe.

[-] FilterItOut@thelemmy.club 5 points 8 months ago

'Reasonable' is decided by a jury, ultimately. You can argue all you want, but this happened in Texas. Good luck convincing a jury the grandfather was unreasonable when half of them likely don't even lock up their guns.

[-] bane_killgrind@lemmy.ml 4 points 8 months ago

Yeah pretty sure c3 applies when the kid is trespassing on the property. He was staying there.

[-] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Sec. 46.13. (b) (2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.

There is no way that gramps can't be charged for doing exactly that.

According to 46.13. (e) it is only a class A misdemeanor however. IMO this should be treated as a felony.

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

"would gain access" not "could gain access".

[-] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Which of these apply to the situation needs to be decided by a court, right?

Let’s try a different situation: the loaded gun is locked up in a cupboard. The child knows about the gun and the key. The key is easily accessible to the child.

Do you think the law applies in this case?

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The way the law defines secured, that would be secured. If the law did not define secured, maybe not.

[-] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 8 months ago

The law defines secure as follows:

46.13 3)

“Secure” means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.

How do you see the described situation matching that description?

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

The container is locked, which is explicitly described as secured. How easy the lock is defeated is not mentioned.

[-] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

… to take steps that a reasonable person would take …

How is that a step a reasonable person would take?

And how would that be a reasonable interpretation of the law?

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Because it's explicitly included in the definition as a step a reasonable person would take. It's not the only step they may take (maybe they hide it instead), but the law is written to be that permissive.

They did not have to add that definition when they passed the bill. They did it to make the law more permissive as to what "secured" meant.

[-] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 8 months ago

No reasonable person considers a box locked or secure when the keys are right next to it.

You would not consider your money safe in a lockbox under the same condition.

Arguing otherwise is quite obviously bad faith.

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

I'm trying to explain to you that the definition "steps a reasonable person would make" includes "in a locked container." You could argue a container with the key literally in the lock isn't locked but the definition you have to use when interpreting the law is the one the law itself provides.

[-] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 8 months ago

definition "steps a reasonable person would make" includes "in a locked container."

No, it’s not. The locked container is just one of the examples for steps a reasonable person could take. The emphasis of the wording is clear.

The way in which you try to twist the wording is another display of bad faith arguing.

[-] roguetrick@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I don't really understand what you think I'm doing in bad faith. You're focused on situations where a locked container isn't reasonable by your definition. The problem is they included the example to specifically make that a step a reasonable person would take. Reasonable is a legal fiction that is influenced by jury instructions that would specifically include this. I'll ask you to contrast that to this model legislation that actually addresses your concerns:

https://www.justice.gov/d9/2023-12/Safe%20Storage%20Model%20Legislation.pdf

[-] hessenjunge@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 8 months ago

You are trying beyond all reason to misinterpret what 'reasonable person' means and in extension what can reaonably be called securely locked. It's gotten pretty outlandish.

The document you linked is a very interesting read as it takes stock of currently existing law and attempts to clear up question you might have about implementation. It states as such in several places on page 1. Page 4 indeed clears up what can be considered what a 'reasonable person' or 'average Joe' has to do to properly store a weapon.

Since you also attack the legal concept of 'reasonable person': The reasonable person is a hypothetical individual who exercises average caution, care, and judgment in their conduct.

So unless there's a lot of lead in the water, the average person would not leave keys to a lockbox that contains valuables or dangerous items that allows someone else, let alone an 8yo have access to it.

[-] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Glovebox of a car is not a proper storage space for firearms

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Texas' safe storage law only requires it be "secured", not the methodology for securing it.

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.13

(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.

"locked container". So in this case, a locked glovebox in a locked car. Now if he failed to lock either, that's a problem.

this post was submitted on 21 Apr 2024
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