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There's an uphill battle here
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2024
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The left really do more social brainwashing though
This is true, the left deploys these evil ideas like "science" to brainwash you into believing their "actual ways to improve people's lives" it's devious.
There is legitimate honest it-really-exists propaganda put out by folks to the left of John McCain. PETA is a real thing. The Sierra Club is a real thing. The ACLU is a real thing. The DSA is real.
But the deck is stacked when you assert an advocated policy needs to be some kind of cosmological truth. I don't need "science" to tell me that Trans-people deserve equitable treatment or that shooting your 11-month old dog in a gravel pit is bad or that billionaires shouldn't exist. These are decidedly political views.
What's more, when I advocate for a position, I'm not going to argue "fairly" with a bigot, a dog-murderer, or a plutocrat. I'm going to make my strongest points and my hardest digs, then leave the opposition to make its own case. Given that I'm being outspent $1M:$1, I don't feel any need to develop a case for the TERF or a South Dakota governor or the megalomaniac profiting off lead paint sales on their behalf.
You don't need to be objective. You can have an opinion and still be a good leftist. You can even make a passionate, moving case that's intended to grip people on more than a purely logical level.
Don't let the right-wing asshats scare you away from showing your humanity when you're engaging in progressive politics.
I'm sure this meme is aimed to the US but "the left" is very broad from where I'm from and I don't see any "science" in their propaganda to be honest. And improving people's lives is very subjective and have various interpretations. Let's just hear everyone from all political spectrums and vote about it shall we?
By "play along" do you mean treat with basic decency and humanity? Because no that's not science, there's this guy from this weird old book the right really likes that says that. In fairness, it's kinda deep--like the second half of the book--so many don't read that far.
No? Of course transgender people should be treated with care and decency like anybody else. But they shouldn't be allowed into the opposite sex's prisons, bathrooms, hospital wards, etc. By play along I mean stuff like "use these person's preferred pronouns or you must die" or "allow these people into your bathrooms or you must die"
Prison is a weird one to toss in there, but why are the others a problem for you?
Isla Bryson.
Bathrooms because women should feel safe in the bathrooms and same with hospital wards. Unisex and disabled bathrooms do exist and would make a good option.
Where are you getting this idea that transgender people are making women feel unsafe in bathrooms?
Women saying this
Got any concrete examples that aren't just made up by fearmongers?
So I'm gonna make some assumptions here to make this point, and I'm also gonna admit I'm a big old lefty and what I'm about to say even makes me a little uncomfortable (I'm working on it).
So first I am going to presume that you are male and not totally jacked or otherwise in amazing shape. What if you were in going to get take out and some called you Ms. Flax? You might say "it's actually Mr. Flax thx" and then they say "well, you're in pretty poor shape Ms. Flax... Men are jacked and you arent jacked... So... ?". This is patently shitty yeah? It's the same thing you have to go on if you hear anyone ask you to use different pronouns: the only way you can know for sure is to do a visual inspection of goods or a blood test. There is literally no circumstance where that would be ok. Now what is that was not once, but many interactions. If you weren't miffed to start, I bet it starts making you put out. I can understand that.
Now extend it to bathrooms. Do you usually card people in your house for the toilet or see it happen at restaurants? What if now it's on you to bench press 300 lb or you need to go sit in the girls room? It's demoralizing. It literally costs you nothing to just let someone go take a leak. You are at greater risk of some R/Tory going in to the bathroom with your kid to take some pictures than someone with some current or past gender identity issues (resolved or unresolved) who has to take a shit.
It is not always super easy. Even I sometimes see a really square jaw and broad shoulders and a skirt and it makes me uncomfortable for a split second until I remember I don't have any obligation but to call them what they want to be called and treat that person like a person. Then, it's just not that big of a deal.
Thank you for taking the time to not scream at me.
I have received verbal abuse in the past for having longer hair. Ironically it was transphobic abuse despite me not being trans. But I also had a toxic friend group which tried to pressure me into being trans. They kept talking about hating men, their pronouns, etc. I made a vague notion of being non-binary as I wasn't one of these "evil" men they were talking about and wasn't very masculine either. They took it and ran with it and basically started insulting cis men saying it's okay because I'm "not a cis man". At the time I was very affirming of transgender people. I advocated for their preferred pronoun use, rights to use preferred bathrooms, etc. It wasn't until they started talking about neopronouns and I began to look into it and debate it rather than straight accept it that they all kicked me out. I also had another friend who detransitioned. I also realised the comments online saying stuff like "billions must trans their gender" weren't a joke. I realised it had become some sort of social dogma which you cannot dare question, and a peer pressure element and sometimes a trauma element. The same movement I was trying to appease would fundamentally hate me anyway as well.
By calling someone by their preferred pronouns or letting them use a preferred bathroom, I am affirming them. But I don't believe anymore that I should be affirming them or telling them that they're correct and this is the right thing for them. I'd prefer to use gender neutral they/them pronouns as to not make them explicitly uncomfortable because they have a right to be comfortable, but I don't think it's right to play along with their emotional turmoil. Maybe I am wrong and genuine gender dysphoria does exist, but the trans people I interacted with, the ones claiming to be men acted like women and the ones claiming to be women acted like men. I don't believe in it anymore.
You are within your rights to do how you want, but you'll catch some hell.
I know 6 people in the trans community now, none of whom have "detransitioned" and none of whose judgement I would question. I was lucky to spend a long time in both boarding school and college and every trans person I know was and is of unimpeachable character and intellect. My argument to you is that it cost you nothing to trust that any person is their own best judge of their needs and perspectives. In the worst case, you end up on a position to have a frank discussion with someone you have always supported. If the shoe were on the other foot, I know I would feel pretty salty if my friends or acquaintances thought they knew my struggles better than I did.
There's nothing to be gained from yelling at you or anyone else who isn't "on board", but just like other social issues, I don't think it's the job of your friendly neighborhood trans person to explain to you either (and that's a totally separate tough place to get to). I would rather step up and try my best to do that role myself.
I don't really want to make transgender people explain themselves. Because I don't think it would be productive randomly sharing my opinion with them unsolicited and making it personal. I don't see how it would help either or be productive. Every trans person I've know or have known has had other things going on underlying, quite often they were the victims of sexual abuse as well. It's kind of hard seeing someone do something unhealthy yet you know if you point it out to them they'd be deeply hurt, because of society telling them they should be.
I guess you never stopped to wonder why your brain didn't explode in a puff of PragerU-branded nonsense when you discovered that all humans are capable of wearing trousers, huh?
This post didn't make sense
I'll take that as a yes.
Your cope requirements must cost you a fortune.
I know my damn son went to college and started liking black people just because he met some and realized that they're human. Started believing in science too!
Years of my hard work instilling traditional values, all for nothing. Goddamn leftist brainwashing.
Do people really brainwash white children into not liking black people?
Um, yes, usually their parents. Do you not understand what racism is?
Have you been living under a rock?
Its called indoctrination and we all do it. good or bad we are indoctrinating our children with our ideas
I don't think indoctrinating your children to not want to date people purely on race is a good thing
Agreed thats why I said good or bad lol
Most people probably don't think doing anything based only on race is very good anymore. Unfortunately if you keep to a totally homogenous group, use only negative language to describe another group (like black people or hispanic people being this or lazy or entitled or weird names or bad music or whatever), and only associate people from those groups with causes or ideas you feel strongly negative about (BLM / border walls / etc)... You are still providing some good old fashioned indoctrination to that effect. That behavioral training will stick much deeper than any message you might give about not seeing color or similar. It's easy to get really sideways really fast with tribal behaviors, since that's sort of the main human distinguishing thing.
While prejudice does happen, simply getting to know the person basically destroys it completely. It's more of a problem in policing, hiring, etc. Things that require assumptions about people to gauge important situations
I agree but this just generally isn't as easy as it sounds.
Yeah... imagine believing the world shouldn't be run for the benefit of a small group of billionaire parasites! Oh the humanity!