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"I don’t care what the millionaires think.”
If he made this the tagline for his entire campaign / next term, I'd feel much better about voting for him.
That was Bernie's tagline (well, billionaires rather than millionaires) before the DNC came together like Voltron to simultaneously consolidate around Biden and boot him out of the race.
It felt extra bad when even Liz was in on it.
I very much remember Liz was the last hold out on endorsing Biden. I was on her campaign.
Edit to add evidence:
Bernie Endorsed Biden Monday, April 13th 2020
Elizabeth followed 2 days later on Wednesday, April 15th 2020
Fuck her. She had her chance to support a fellow Progressive twice in a row and she chose to help the centrists both times rather than let someone else with the values she claimed to hold win. She's either a liar or so unbelievably bad at strategic thinking that she belongs nowhere near politics.
Liz was splitting the left vote with Bernie, on purpose.
Liz is a traitor.
🐍🐍🐍🐍
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Why did she run in 2020 though? Why didn't she run in 2016 when Bernie and many of her supporters, myself included at the time, overwhelming supported her and begged her to run against Clinton (because we knew she was a terrible candidate that would cost us so much).
Why did she choose to run against Bernie when the policies they support are so similar.
Better question: what policies did she support that she didn't think Bernie would enact that made her feel she needed to run against him? It was obvious he had a better chance than her that point, so why run against him?
I can't speak for Elizabeth, or for many other supporters, but I can tell you why I supported her and not Bernie.
While I agree with so much of Bernies platform, I just wasn't convinced he was a pragmatic candidate. When asked how he would handle Mitch McConnell, his response was essentially "Our revolution will take care of that- voters will listen to my message and I won't have to deal with him". That wasn't really the question, and I just didn't see that as a good answer. It solidified my thoughts that he was an idealist who was pushing for great things and was very much needed, but when it came to the cold realities of getting things done, he wasn't someone who I thought could negotiate with republicans.
I also was very wary of populists. Bernie was very much a left wing Trump only in that he built a very deep cult of personality. Everyone who I talked to, every poll I saw, every post I read cemented the idea that it was Bernie or bust. Especially now as I am terrified of a Civil War 2 breaking out, the stance of non-negotiation is not only ineffective, but dangerous.
Idealists play a very important role in any movement. They create the energy needed to push things forward. However in the position of Commander in Chief, the virtue needed is restraint. I wanted to find a balance between progressive policy and pragmatic restraint, and so I saw Warren as the better of the two options. 4 years later I'm not as excited about her as I was then, and much of the details are fuzzy, but I know this is broadly what I thought.
I know in this thread there will be a lot of mud slinging and calling those who disagree with Bernie of 2020 or their supporters as stupid and/or evil, but that stance is exactly what I saw as divisive and dangerous in a time we need to avoid division and violence. Not all of it was Bernie's fault, but I also know Idealists can push other idealists further to extremes. We are in a prisoners dilemma, where if we choose the path of getting everything, we will get nothing.
Edit Just to clarify, most of my friends supported Bernie, and they are not stupid. There are a million reasons why he was the best candidate, and many times he worked with republicans. At the time, I saw Warren as more of a 70/30 progressive and Bernie more 80/20.
I've read that explanation many times from many people, at this point. I'm honestly not yet compassionate enough to forgive y'all for what I believe to be willfull ignorance (no offense, srsly). That said, I totally respect your opinions and actions as a free fellow citizen.
My only question is, didn't you care that she was obviously going to lose? Did really not that matter to you? (These are rhetorical, I guess, since if you could've you would've.)
It seems the real issue is a failure to understand how politics works in general, how it works in the US, and how it works in a two-party system. The answers to those questions should help you understand why so many people recognized that if Bernie didn't win, we'd be in this exact position. No one can tell the future, but plenty of people have predicted exactly what has happened (from trump being president to the DNC propping up a corpse despite the will and wishes of voters and donors).
Finally, imo, if Warren was sincere (and wasn't purposefully trying to hurt the chances of policies she supposedly supports being enacted) then she's unbelievably incompetent, which I absolutely do not believe she is. That leaves only one alternative: she refused to run against Clinton because she knew she would have a good chance at beating her and didn't want to run against here; instead, she preferred the certainty of a cabinet position (or less likely, support in her own presidential run 2-3 terms later - an insane bet, imo, given no party keeps the presidency a 3rd term in this country) and then she ran in 2020 to help Biden based on the same motives (support the DNC and they'll support you). She sold out plain and simple.
I'm truly blown away that people don't recognize that many progressives clearly said it would be a Bernie vs establishment DNC (i.e. Biden) rematch and it was. How do people not feel absolutely duped after all the BS 20+ candidates that were obvious distractions that then all joined to support Biden like fuckin clockwork. Fuck conspiracy theories, we literally watched this stuff happen and people still seem beyond confused. It's so wild to me
Sorry for the rant in return. I wish I had friends I could talk to about this stuff, but my friends are mostly dumb as shit. They're a fun crowd tho ;P
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Last I heard he was listening to his family, all of which happen to be millionaires, including himself.
He's just another arrogant, out of touch, privileged elite with no understanding of what the majority of Americans experience day to day.
His hubris was on full display in Friday's interview, the stakes are clearly not the same for him. He has enough wealth and power to weather this fascist storm, unfortunately most of us do not.
See, he didn't say it before but only says it now, because now it's PERSONAL. And did he really use the word "millionaires" instead of "billionaires?" If yes, he's a goddam coward, and I thank him for letting me know.
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Fuck you for trying to spin it that way, Biden.
I don’t want you as the candidate because the shit you’re saying indicates you straight up don’t understand the stakes. You said that you’d “feel fine, because you gave it your all”. Meanwhile, I’ll be out here dodging fucking 3%er and Proud Boy paramilitary squads that Trump will surely deputize with an “official act”, which will be very legal and very cool as per the Tribunal of Six’s recent decision.
Your head is not in the game. You are stuck not only in the sunk-cost fallacy, but also up your own ass. You are not trying hard enough. You are not using the right tactics. At this point I seriously doubt you even understand what the right tactics are.
We are trying to fight against fascism, and you’re going to fucking hand it to the fascists. Get out of our fucking way.
I've read a number of comments like yours and have always been curious about this sentiment.
I feel similarly iffy about the whole process. Despite that, I can't think of a viable alternative at this point in time that wouldn't lead to a disastrous result.
I genuinely want to know: if he does step down and give way to another candidate, who do you have in mind? Is it one person? Is it multiple? Or are we just hoping that if he steps down, a magical better candidate will show up?
Harris, Newsom, and Whitmer would probably be my top 3 picks for viability. Of those three, I think Whitmer would be my favorite choice, but I think Newsom would be the most pragmatic choice (and to be clear, there is a LOT I don’t like about Newsom, despite the fact that I align with him on a decent number of issues) in the context of electability (white, male, a touch religious but not overly so, charismatic, great public speaker). I think Harris is uninspiring and the wrong choice for a TON of reasons, but the establishment will probably stick with her if they are somehow forced to not go with Biden simply because she’s currently VP.
But, you know, that’s what primaries are supposed to be. We’re not really supposed to have the DNC essentially just playing kingmaker and doing cloak and dagger shit behind the scenes so their Chosen One ends up guaranteed to clinch the nomination. Unfortunately, the DNC is basically run by corporatist neoliberals at this point, so they aren’t interested in doing that… and they’re also unwilling to admit that such attitudes are precisely how we got here in the first fucking place.
We got Trump because “it was her turn”. And I will NEVER fucking forgive Hillary for that. It’s abundantly clear that the “adults in the room” at the DNC have no fucking idea what they’re doing.
Yeah, the best case scenario was Biden not running for 2024 from the beginning so we could have proper primaries, and align behind the winner. That's how it should have been handled.
But it's too late. None of the candidates you mentioned are strong enough to rally behind this late in the race. Each state would need to figure out a makeshift primary and then align, or DNC would have to choose, which would make it Harris by default. It would be an absolute disaster.
I mean… you and I can armchair general the situation until we’re blue in the face, but the fact remains that the debate and his subsequent interview last Friday (that was supposed to allay concerns, but ended up stoking them - albeit, for me at least, in a different direction) have made not only random joes like me lose confidence in his ability to pull out a win in November, but sitting legislators, party insiders, and the donor class as well. Biden and his campaign are handling this whole thing like rank amateurs and imbeciles, and I'm furious about it because I understand exactly what the implications are if we fail to stop the fascists from winning the election… and neither Biden nor his campaign seem to be taking that as seriously as it needs to be taken.
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But did he slam them, too?
Yea I'm so elite. That's why I barely survive paycheck to paycheck, don't have healthcare, don't have much with regards to retirement funds, and have to ration my food. And I'm fucking 33.
Fuck you, you elitist old man. Democratic elite are showing their true colors, that they don't give a fuck about us. We are trying to tell him that he's going to lose to a fascist with his shitty debate performance, and he's pretending it didn't happen and trying to gaslight us. It's not that we want trump because we don't. But we are worried that his shit performance will depress the vote into not voting, which is a very real threat and will lead to fascism.
If we fall into fascism it won't be the voters fault, it'll be the fault of the elite ruling class. We didn't have to go in this direction, but we have been going here because Republicans keep going further authoritarian and the Democratic party barely tries to push back.
Whoaaaa....
Are you saying voters aren't going to respond well to Biden telling them their concerns aren't valid and no matter what he's not listen to them?!
It's just such a tone deaf response. I sent an email to my senators and rep asking them to listen to their constituencies regarding their election fears. Not that I think it will do much. But God, waiting around for this old man to lose to Trump while feeling powerless (yes, I'll still vote) just sucks so much.
Old Joe's got everybody mad at him. Elites. Big money donors. Etc. Everybody it seems bur Democratic voters. Polls are the same as before the debate.
Because those votes are mainly votes against Trump and even a trash can would probably pull in similar protest votes. All the more reason the idea of a better candidate that people are even slightly more enthusiastic over could push those numbers up
Yep. I'm voting against Trump, not for Biden. Trump could run against a rock for all I care.
Therein lies the rub. There aren't any democrats that poll better.
No other democrat is campaigning though...
True. However, national exposure is a large factor and even if there was someone vetted, they still will walk unintroduced on the national stage.
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You realize the Venn diagram of "Candidates the DNC financiers support" and "Candidates that would get more support than Joe Biden" doesn't actually overlap, right?
If campaign financing is the primary consideration then we deserve the shit storm that's coming.
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Yeah.
The vast majority willing to vote for Biden, would vote "blue no matter who".
Which means logically, switching candidates is the smartest plan if all that matters is stopping trump.
But a very small, very vocal group of Biden voters (and even Biden) seem to be lying about what's most important. I still can't believe Biden really said he wouldn't care if he lost.
If they can't get Biden. A Republican is their second pick.
They just won't admit it.
But it's the only logical reason people would be insisting it has to be Biden. Just like Joe, they don't care if trump wins.
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Polls were not good before the debate. Maybe it's too early to say what the effect will be but here's the second report I've seen saying it's getting worse.
Old Joe's got everybody mad at him. Elites. Big money donors. Etc.
To be fair, having those particular groups mad at you should be considered a good thing.
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The polls are worse, by a lot. He is absolutely sinking and not coming back.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/politics/poll-debate-biden-trump.html
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Funny how I’m suddenly one of the elites. I guess my opinion doesn’t reach him, so his definition probably stands.
The problem is that plenty of non-elites also want him to exit the race; they just don't have the option of urging him to do it.
LOL, the term "elite/elitism" has lost all meaning.
Look at me, I'm an Elite! All this time I thought I was just some broke ass white boy.
Clearly he's got aides helping him do most stuff. That's not unheard of for any political official, but I imagine he's just going along with it like Reagan at the end of his term.
When he's by himself on a debate podium, you can see he's not doing great.
However, Trump is worse. They're two old men and you can see Biden is a calm older man slowly slipping. Trump is mad at everyone and everything, refuses help, and requires everyone to be a sycophant around him to placate his ego. The only way people get what they want out of him is to steer the bull in the direction of the China shop they want destroyed. He's an old man yelling at the TV, and we all have to hear him.
That said, one of them can, will, and has done more damage than the other. That's why I'd vote for Biden. The meme of "live Biden > dead Biden > dead Trump > live Trump" comes to mind.
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I don't care if he's comatose and braindead by election day, I'm still voting for him if he's on the ballot.
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this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2024
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