Hard to argue with him about the JJ-Abramsification of all things, or the perplexing fact that modern audiences appear to lap it up.
Watching season one of RoP felt undeniably reminiscent of watching The Force Awakens and almost hearing the audible *ding as yet another callback got checked off the list. It's not art any more; it's just content to be consumed.
This review makes a lot of great points about parts of the series that I was having trouble putting into words. Especially the bit about the scope being so grand and beautiful and then zooming too far in so that the cities or towns feel like a set.
On social media, I keep seeing the Rings of Power promotions with 'Deep Dives in Lore' or something like that. Why have these deep dives if the lore doesn't add up? Tom Bombadil doesn't deserve this.
"Deep dives in lore" meant mentioning places that nobody's really heard of unless you've read HoME. Lol
Lol Not-Gandalf
Now joined by Not-Saruman
I haven't watched the second season, but I remember more than one sigh during the first one. I really liked the costumes and decoration, but I just kept thinking, "Why did they need to tell this story?" I didn't hate it, but I thought the entire exercise was pointless and unnecessary: apathy is worse than hate.
The question is rhetorical, of course. They couldn't get ahold of the rights to the Silmarillion, and the machine hungers.
They did not get the rights to Silmarillion? This explains a lot.
It's based entirely on the appendices from The Lord of the Rings, so for legal reasons anything that was in The Silmarillion but not the appendices had to be altered.
Nope. Another click bait rage garbage article, from no less than Forbes, the shittiest cesspool of shitty shit on the internet.
The show is fine. Looks amazing, sounds incredible, full of wonderful performances and nuanced characters with interesting takes on adapting an incredibly complex source material. I'll take it over 90% of "prestige" dramas about rich families and murder procedurals any day.
Even if it's not your particular bag, it doesn't deserve anywhere near the level of vitriol leveled at it by people desperate to drive clicks to their mediocre blog or reaction channel.
TheOneRing.net had an incisive take on this recently that I think everyone ought to read. https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2024/09/06/119303-dont-kill-content-no-one-needs-your-hot-take/
While I'd personally argue that the quality of the character development, writing, and storytelling in the show doesn't even achieve the level of "fine", you're right in that 1) people should be allowed to enjoy things in peace and 2) RoP in particular attracts criticism which is often hyperbolic. At the same time, however, there should also be the freedom to honestly critique a piece of media without being labeled as a hater, obsessive fanboy, or a neckbeard, etc. Especially when dealing with an IP as treasured as Tolkien's.
Whether you find this article excessive in its criticism or not, the writer makes the very valid point that the media landscape today is becoming increasingly saturated with this 'memberberries/nostalgia/callback type of storytelling, along with the constant stream of prequels and sequels based on this formula. People are growing tired of it, and Rings of Power has it deep in its bones.
For a good examination of the showrunners' over-reliance on referencing the Jackson movie trilogy in lieu of interesting, original storytelling, I highly recommend this YouTube video. I think it really gets to the core of why so many people find RoP frustrating or disappointing as a show in its own right, let alone as a Tolkien adaptation.
Yeah I feel like rings of power is just a hatewagon everywhere. I've been really impressed with the sets and costumes in both seasons. They are a beautiful treat. And while I'm not terribly interested in the characters or story it's good watching just for that.
Kind of weird to call it a "callback." I think the author just didn't quite know what to call it when Rings of Power is just taking straight up stealing scenes from the books an entire Age before they happen?
I don't think there is a name for it, because it's stupid and no one thought it was a good idea before now. Some marketing bozo heard book nerds were salty about Tom Bombadil not being in Jackson's movie and figured they paid for the rights, just rewrite the scene to fit?
I guess I'm in the minority, but as someone who grew up with the books and pretty much enjoyed everything apart from Hobbit, I've been thoroughly enjoyng the show. First season was a tad slow to grab me, but after the slow start the episodes have been the highlights of my week.
I have zero issues with using the great lore as source of inspiration and doing new stuff with it.
S2 is definitely better than S1, but it could still be a lot better. More experienced showrunners could've made this a lot better.
I don't mind all the callbacks. They probably couldn't help themselves being such big fans of the movies and just had to do it. Lol
Not sure whom I'd prefer to tackle this. After the clusterfuck that was Amazons Wheel of Time, this feels like 9/10 😅
I was thinking people from HBO, but considering HOTD turned out to be not that great, I'm not so sure now. Lol
I actually don't mind WOT - only because I've never read those books! My wife who's read the books is a little less enthused.
As someone who has read the series 3 times, they absolutely woke-butchered the series and fucked things up. Everything that I loved was rewritten, the characters were changed, and the pacing was off.
I have read the entire series multiple times and am enjoying the show just fine
I liked the hobbit but it was the first one I read and maybe the first fantasy I had read.
For me that was the first wheel of time book. First ones definitely stay with you. For me the Hobbit seemed lackluster, finished it in one evening and it felt too basic
That's the trouble with children's books... Lol
I've only read The Hobbit once but I'm trying to get my kid into it.
oh man starting with wheel of time im not surprised you found the hobbit lackluster. surprised you liked lord of the rings with that as a start. thing is that it would have never existed without much of what came before.
LotR was good, had depth. Hobbit? That was a novel in readers digest. 😅
It's a children's book.
Yeah and even as a kid it was too basic (after reading WoT)
Depends on the age, I guess.
My parents read it with me when I was 7 or 8, and it started a life-long fascination with fantasy books.
yeah but magic in wot destroyed the world. heck hobbit practically had more visible magic than lotr
I too am bummed out with the constant 'echoes of the future' and also the lazy storytelling. (Seriously the elves do lack proper communication methods).
But the thing this episode did was 'you know Tolkien geeks, all the stuff Peter Jackson left out like Tom and the wraiths we'll put in. And add in some ent wifes too'
It's laid on so thick that it's cringing me out.
I'm getting tired of this hate wagon bullshit and now mainstream media is doing it. Anger memes or outrage sells and spreads, so it's profitable.
The show isn't amazing and you can criticize it but it's quite enjoyable. A lot of people enjoy it. It's not slop. It takes some liberties and things but overall the storytelling is pretty solid. Creature design is amazing. They tell the origin story of the hobbits, the istar and sauron. The legends are slightly different but that is why they are legends.
I very much look forward to season 2. I do not look forward to the inevitable review bombing and hate posting. If you don't like it, don't watch it, and yeah if it gets cancelled due to lack of interest that's fair too. The problem is that both reactionaries and profit-seekers are weaponizing online outrage and clickbait and manipulating ratings and online perception.
I mean for a fan with big expectations its certainly disapointing, but like I can't think of anything that has not been that way since, well, lord of the rings. Barring that its ok which again is sorta par for the course for media currently. Its not horrible but not great and its hard to point to things one may like about it outside of the general feel of fantasy. Like a high point to me is the dwarves but its not that great. But I could certainly complain a lot on it endlessly. Seemingly adding to galadriels abilities as best at bow along with sword and magic and fisticufs did not help this episode. I am watching mostly because its fee for me and im trying to figure out who the evil wizard is being that they seem to make him look like sauruman but boy will it be an F up if that is who he is but he can't be melkor or morgoth.
When I went back to and watched LOTR recently, a number of special effects were incredibly disappointing. They definitely rushed some of those scenes.
are you sure you are just not seeing an effect of the times? return of the king was filmed 20 years ago. Do you remember what graphics where like back then? SGI was still a thing.
The film certainly had some absolutely amazing special effects. I was impressed with how real Gollum looked and interacted with people. But take the scene of Frodo running into Mt Doom. That was terrible. It was a series of films, but slightly marred by either innatention or time constraints.
I think the real problem here is being missed… probably deliberately so. Surely if you inherit someone else’s ip you have to play to their rules and law? If you don’t want to then you need to make an original ip that lets you do what you want. The lack of understanding, the entitlement and the disrespect it takes to tear-up existing law because you know better than the original author is insane. I’m gonna remake Sesame Street. I’m gonna place it on a farm and make that big yellow fucker into a small blue pony and have all the other characters hunt humans. B… b… b… but that don’t sound like Sesame Street anymore say all the (insert meaningless generic insult here)’s. The quality, or otherwise, of the finished product won’t matter if it has one foot in tradition and one foot in new made-up contradictory law. It will be a bastardisation whatever.
I totally get what you mean and feel similarly angry about the star wars sequels, but not about the rings of power. Only thing that annoys me is the insertion of varying phenotypes, but no reason to get angry, it's fantasy. Other than that there are many things to like and a few to dislike.
I also don't get how everyone claims how they find this or that part of the story so boring, the production design is amazing enough to gloss over parts that you don't find that interesting.
They also tell the story pretty straightforward without big twists. And they let the viewer experience how Sauron deceived the elves and others, and experience how confused the stranger feels about his purpose. Except for the "no horses" in Episode 4 the storytelling is pretty good.
If you do not talk yourself into a rage and discuss it in a positive sub like r/LOTR_on_Prime you can totally enjoy it.
I’m no fan of Tolkien / LotR’s but the revisionism of Orcs in the new series to be essentially humans that look a bit different is such a colossal change that it undermines everything in that world. Imagine if the tinfoil dude in Starwars (CPO?) unzipped his costume in episode XII and he turned out to be a human. Would that make a mockery of the franchise - or at least make it look stupid? Spock & Kirk in Star Trek are now the opposite of what they were. The film called Snow White might not even tell the Snow White story. Velma from Scooby Doo has become a deplorable bitch. If you don’t have the talent to write something original stick to the rules and lore of the people who did. Having said that, enjoy the rest of the series.
Yeah ok the "orc nuclear family" is a bit questionable. I would prefer if there are no orc women and that they just spring from the ground ;)
But it does make them "less irredeemable" and is consistent with Tolkien's writing. Also "Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar."
Yeah, I’ve been told Tolkien is on record begrudgingly admitting that there probably were orc women (females?)… somewhere. My nerd friends (No offence, nerds) are ok with that it’s more the un-orc-like personality. Like having an irrational Vulcan. If it isn’t the (new) main story it looks lazy and amateur - to me. The other thing they complain about is that Gwadriol (sp?) - main woman - is written like a superhero and they reckon that’s massively out of keeping too.
Reactionaries, really.
Yeah but also I suspect it's become like a sport or outrage hobby and grifters feed into it for clicks. Like building negative hype.
I am meh about much modern media including rings of power but my complaint of the complaint comes from the reference to an earlier complaint he had about gandolf saying “If in doubt, always follow your nose” to the characters like he had in lotr. That is a phrase that if someone uses they will not just use once. Its likely a phrase they would use many times such that someone else would say. Like mister gandolfs says or such. Like my granpaapy used to say. Might as well complain when shrek says better out than in.
I’m not watching, but really enjoying watching the Internet go into a meltdown about a TV show again.
this dude is so pissed off at this show for all the right reasons, when you read it you can hear his little nerd brain go squeeeeeze, hahahahaha. i hate rings of power so much.
I litererally spent the past 20 minutes trying to articulate a nuanced response on that show but i could only ignite my own mount doom remembering how incredibly stupid the first season was.
But I heard Henry Cavil is going to fill in as the beloved and most important character of the appendix listing of: Forest Men (all of them) and they will be sure to guide Galadriel into a love triangle with the not-hobbits, sauron and the wampa (ice troll?) from S0101 and also sexy Shelob from that one game and also reallly sexy Ungoliant and Morgoth, but they’re married now and just living a quiet life in the country with some low key friends in another world.
this might have been an anime im thinking about though…
Far too much does this now and it's a short term win, long term loss.
Die hard fans of the material maybe enjoy it for a bit but then get sick of it. New people won't get into it as huge chunks of it are meaningless to them.
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