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Didn't Ukraine give up its nukes specifically under the condition that Russia would leave them alone as a free independent nation? Seems those terms went out the window years ago.
Exactly. That treaty was already violated. So there is no longer any treaty preventing them from becomming a nuclear power again.
I'm surprised it took them this long to even threaten the idea, although it could simply be that they already built some weapons to have a stockpile before the announcement. I can totally see Putin thinking "oh they only have one bomb, that's an acceptable loss to stop them from building more before we have another MAD stalemate."
By years ago, ypu mean 2014?
- 2014 is when Russia violated the agreement.
I thought it was 2016, but yeah, somewhere around then.
Yes and that exchange has been observed by the whole world. I doubt we will ever see one like it again
Anyone that gives up all of their nukes is nuts.. as demonstrated by the Ukraine case.
You might limit the amount, how many do you really need .. not thousands.. that's expensive anyway.
With this message I would not be surprised if in some underground mining complex Ukraine has centrifuges being installed already.
Well they claim they have what they need already.
Unknown if that's for a dirty bomb or a true nuclear fission weapon
They have ballistic missiles and plenty of nuclear materials. If the nuclear materials are weapons grade is doubtfull but not impossible
Producing weapons grade nuclear materials isn't that difficult. Iran is believed to only need a few weeks if they want to. (IRAN has known stock piles of just below weapons, but well above power plant grade Uranium). Many of us could probably do it in our basement if we could get our hands on enough Uranium. (there are a number of ways to die a painful death doing this as most people work in their basement, but we could probably get enough to produce a bomb before we died). With the knowledge anyone has and Ukraine's current nuclear power plants and thus nuclear knowledge it is reasonable to assume they could get the weapons grade nuclear material if they really wanted.
Yeah, and I read that the byproduct of nuclear power generation is plutonium which can also be used as a Hiroshima style nuclear weapon, not in the megaton range but probably enough to get the point across.
I mean refinining is the hard part, Actually assembling a gun-type nuclear device is rather simple by the standards of modern technology.
They aren’t even the only country to do it that’s currently in serious conflict with a nuclear power. Canada did it and now has pulled all diplomats from India.
And that the US would protect them if attacked.
'93 Budapest protocol I believe
That is not what the Budapest Memorandum says. It's really short so you can just read it but it only requires the US to bring the matter to the UN security counsel which they have. Russia has violated most provisions but the US hasn't violated any.
Knew I was missing something.
Kinda seems like a moot clause considering Russia has veto powers in the UNSC.
Ah I wasn't aware of that part of the deal. I wonder if they're threatening nukes because they're getting nervous that Trump might get re-elected and not honor that deal?
They're threatening to build nukes because they have nukes, I believe both France and Israel came out as nuclear nations in the same "we'll just float becoming a nuclear nation and see what happens."
There's still Soviet nuclear material missing and Ukraine has both mines and the know how to assemble older nukes anyway because that was done to some extent in Ukraine during the Soviet Union.
Ya.
As much as I hate to see nuclear proliferation, Russia hasnt really given Ukraine much choice in the matter, seeing that Russia is willing to invade any non-nuclear states around it.
Understandable. Sad, but understandable.
Unfortunately this is the only kind of language Russia understands.
Based.
They're right to do it.
Russia proved to the world that every single promise made for nuclear non-proliferation is a lie, and the only way to deter an empire remains "be fucking dangerous".
It's very fucking sad and we're committing to MADness harder than ever because of Putin and Russian dumbass hardass culture.
Russian men are to blame for wanting all this, demanding it, fighting for it instead of against it.
It seems entirely possible to me that Russia decides to preemptively nuke Ukraine to prevent them from getting their own, and at that point either the US decides it's not worth retaliating for them, or the end of the world is ordered ... but even if that happens, I just don't care. Reason and stability are forfeit and before we get people back on board, before we get Russians back to it, I wouldn't be surprised if there has to be close calls where everything might go wrong and never get another chance to be resolved. But I've lived my whole life with the nuclear threat and the doomsday clock strongly defining everything that ever happened in my life as borrowed time, permitted by empires withholding global annihilation. I've come to fucking accept it a long time ago. The cultural impact of nuclear doomsday threats on widespread nihilism seems obvious. And in my mind it's just fucking fitting that stupid humans should choose to fuck eachother completely over and be left with nothing to lord over. Going into it knowing that and being fine with it because at least the enemy is also obliterated, poisoned, and doomed. Humans are just like that. We're angry idiots and a lot of us deserve that kind of end. If going interstellar was ever a distant potential, it might even be for the best that we don't bring our bullshit outside Earth's cradle. It seems insane to me that anyone could not be feeling misanthropic after the failures of the hopes built up in the late 80's.
You need to understand that Putin is only ordering a nuclear strike as the last option for him to stay in power, because after that he knows that is only a matter of time before someone kill him, what can happen is Russia backing out and he pray for the population to not rebel against him, and to be fair, Russians don't give a fuck so that would happen
Hopefully a large building crumbles over putin accidentally like the Hamas incident thus week.
It’s not just the US. Nuclear launches any nuclear power allied with Ukraine could fire. My bets are actually on France or the UK
Do it. It could neutralize the threats from Russia about dropping nuclear bombs. It might be the only to get the scaredy-cats in Western Europe to agree to long-range weapons since Russia's threats would be quite useless.
Long range weapons and more weapons too.
One can hope.
Edit: BTW the image looks like a screenshot from C&C lol
Edit: BTW the image looks like a screenshot from C&C lol
For real 🤣
Aww yeah
Looks like roasted orc is back on the menu boys.
Seriously though, I doubt Ukraine would turn their own land into a radioactive wasteland. Which means they would fling them into russia. Which would escalate things
Which would escalate things
ROFL D'YA THINK!
I do. Which means the whole strategy of the announcement is simply to get more conventional weapons support from supportive nations.
LOL you jump to conclusions with such confidence
I think it’s also to begin establishing the “if we’re already doomed” part of MAD.
Russia launches nukes at Ukraine and it'll be WWIII
Fuck it, three years of lil' putin's failed invasion and thousands of tankies being downvoted into a red paste we have to hose out of the square (lmao, see what I did there), nuke 'em.
That's what they want, a bloody war to appease the 5'6" neofuhrer.
Let's oblige.
That's a brilliant plan. Nuclear armed countries generally have a policy of "live and let live" once they get nuked so that should work out great.
Live and let live.. man that sounds stellar.
Probably why Russia made an agreement with Ukraine in 2014 regarding nuclear disarmament on the condition Russia let Ukraine live and let live.
How did that go? Russia (as always) negotiated in bad faith.
Russia made that agreement in 1994, broke it in 2014
I’m not arguing that Russia is trustworthy. I’m saying that nuclear retaliation is a standard policy for any nuclear power.
We’d be relying on an other Stanislav Petrov to save us. I don’t like those odds.
Ukrainian nuclear weapons aren't a credible threat to Russia, for the same reason Russia's aren't to Ukraine: It isn't under an immediate threat of being wiped out, just losing territory. I think this is aimed more at the United States, trying to pressure them into keeping up or increasing aid with the threat of nuclear proliferation (as Japan, Taiwan and Saudi Arabia have done). There is also the possibility that in a Trump administration, loss of US aid could turn the war back into an existential threat where nuclear weapons could be used.
To threaten Russia all you need to do is threaten Moscow and Petersburg. The rest of the country doesn't exist as far as power structures are concerned.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. That is exactly what this is.
I assume people decided it had the vibe of accusing Ukraine of being underhanded (it's not, but internet gonna internet)
They have the capabilities?, they have nuclear power tho, but that's a not of money required
this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2024
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