As a European I am grateful to Donald Trump for giving us the much needed kick up the backside to finally ditch the US. It's an odd move for an empire to willingly give up its vassal states but the opportunity should not be missed by us.

[–] rocket_dragon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

US is throwing in with Russia instead. So question is, will Russia be a US vassal, or the US a Russian vassal, or will the US and Russia jointly become the new Imperial Core.

[–] Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I don't know but Russia seems to be getting what it wants from Trump, right now at least. The US is way less stable than Russia at the moment though and may flip again after he is out.

I think Putin is gambling that a division between Europe and the US will give him more power, comparatively. China are probably into that idea too. Europe's GDP is 1.5 times bigger than China's and 14 times bigger than Russia's though. If Europe decides to tool up, which it's saying it will then the best case scenario for Russia is that the US gets to go off and hang out with other nutcases like North Korea, Haiti and Burkina Faso and the worst case is that Russia ends up with a lot of very big new guns aimed at it by twitchy and paranoid neighbours who have a newfound passion for distracting from their economic and social failures by talking tough and finding bogeymen.

[–] unphazed@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

"When he is out". Haha. Mfer is going full dictator and we're screwed..

[–] ThePyroPython@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I thought you guys had a mechanism for dealing with these types of situations?

[–] unphazed@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

We shooould, but the virus is causing delays and it's spreading quicker than be contained.

[–] rockerface@lemm.ee 3 points 3 weeks ago

So far it seems like the second option

[–] drolex@sopuli.xyz 40 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Ah yes the democratic bloc of Russia, North Korea, Belarus, Eritrea, Hungary and the USA

[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 3 weeks ago

Don’t forget Israel.

[–] TheBrideWoreCrimson@sopuli.xyz 6 points 3 weeks ago

The company you keep.

[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 23 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

It's almost incredible but this generational upending of geopolitics really does seem to come down to one thing: the despicable orange manbaby's personal resentment and jealousy of the Ukrainian president.

But then the fact that Ukraine is dependent on the US for its survival is completely shameful for us in Europe. We should never have allowed this to happen and we need to wake up. This is all such a golden opportunity. I think, hope, Macron gets it.

[–] rocket_dragon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

There's a certain demographic of self-described "leftists" who end up being pro-Russia because they are anti-US and see Russia as the opposition to the US.

I'm curious to see if they're able to mentally reconcile a possible geopolitical future where full fash USA and Russia become allies. Are they so pro-Russia that they become pro-USA, or are they so anti-USA they finally become anti-Russia?

Or do they just stick their heads in the ground and pretend like nothing is happening because their US vs Russia worldview cannot support real life geopolitics?

[–] Jesusaurus@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago

Yes

[–] qaz@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

I was wondering the exact same thing

[–] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml -3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

If Russia and the US form a coalition they probably just stop supporting Russia no? This isn't a team sport

[–] rocket_dragon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 3 weeks ago

After years of defending Russian war crimes I don't think they'll find it all that easy to "just stop supporting Russia".

Like are they suddenly going to admit that Russia was commiting atrocities the entire time, or pretend the atrocities only started with the influence of their US ally, or just go silent on everything?

[+] electric_nan@lemmy.ml -7 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

There may well be people like you describe, but I see this point of view as exaggerated more often than not. I don't know any leftists that "support" Russia, and certainly not any that think Putin is any kind of good guy. Yes, they view the US as a bigger threat to the world (with very good reason!). They also have a more nuanced view of the geopolitics and history around the war in Ukraine.

[–] rocket_dragon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The "nuanced view of the geopolitics and history around the war in Ukraine" is usually a lot of mental gymnastics for the sole purpose of defending Russia.

lemmy.ml has a huge pro-Russia bias, for example, my recent comment accusing Russia of being a Nazi country was removed for being "bigoted", another recent comment accusing Israel of being a Nazi country using identical phrasing remained untouched.

You can't have it both ways, saying you don't support Russia while putting in lots of effort to support Russia.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml -5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Again, it's not my experience that such analysis boils down to defending Russia. You don't have to agree with an argument to understand it, and you need to understand it if you don't want to misrepresent it.

[–] rocket_dragon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I do understand the argument, and it lays all accountability for Russia's invasion at the feet of the US, NATO, and Ukraine.

It's the equivalent of blaming Iraq for the US invasion, or blaming Hamas for Israel destroying Gaza. Make sense?

[+] electric_nan@lemmy.ml -5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] rocket_dragon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

If Putin came in as a liberator, sure. Instead it became a convenient excuse for the subjugation of Ukrainian people, demoralizing them and terrorizing them with war crimes, so he can annex their land and strip them of natural resources.

The US was heavily involved in overthrowing that government.

Slight reference here to a prominent Russian theory that Ukraine is under US deep state government control. Which is this was true, the US wouldn't looking to switch sides to Russia. And Ukraine wouldn't be so set on continuing to defend itself even if the US switches.

That's why I'm saying, pro-Russia leftists are going to mentally crumble if the US switches over, because their entire world view (the one they like to call their "nuanced geopolitical view") has been ripped apart.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml -4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I genuinely believe that a Harris administration would also be looking for an exit at this point. The US has failed to meet most (any?) of its objectives with this proxy war, and is finally admitting it. This is a bitter pill indeed for many people in Ukraine and abroad. The fact is that nothing will turn the tide/retake territory, barring US/NATO intervention. I cannot see that happening no matter who sits in the oval office. Trump is a brash asshole about it, just like everything else, but I think the results will be the same.

[–] rocket_dragon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I can't argue against anything you said there.

The advantage of a Harris administration is that the US would continue to be unfriendly to Russia, so pro-Russia leftists could continue to believe that Ukraine was just a vassal ruled by US deep state plants, and not have to face the world-shattering reality of a US-Russia alliance against Ukraine.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I think you are grinding your axe too sharply. The US never has anyone's best interest in mind, under any administration. Official US support for Ukraine has never been about freedom, democracy, etc. With that in mind, has the US truly been a friend to the Ukrainian people? They have persisted in prolonging and funding the war well past the point where the prospect of victory had disappeared, at great cost of Ukrainian lives.

Trump is not going to "ally" with Russia. If you call negotiating a peace deal that reflects the relative strength of the Russian position an "alliance" I will have to disagree with you. The worst part of what Trump is doing is extorting Ukraine for the privilege of having suffered for US strategic aims.

[–] rocket_dragon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

"Negotiating a peace deal"

Ukraine was not involved in the peace deal, it was Russia and the US alone behind closed doors.

That's not a normal peace deal.

And now Israel is voting in the UN in favor of Russia.

The US, Israel, and Russia are similar countries with similar leaders, similar goals, similar methods. Unless we actually see one of the three experience an internal revolution, an alliance is inevitable.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml -1 points 3 weeks ago

Ukraine has no leverage to broker any kind of peace. If the US totally cuts off military aid to Ukraine, they cannot hold against Russia. Thus the reality is revealed: this is a proxy war for the US. I know this hurts and is very unfair to Ukrainians, but it just is what it is. Sure, Ukraine can ignore the results of any negotiation, but it will continue the fight without US support-- a fight it has been slowly losing even with that support.

Israel votes with the US on things like this in exchange for US always voting to protect Israel from any censure.

[–] gutsnsuch@lemm.ee 17 points 3 weeks ago

So Israel wants you to cry for them, but not for the people of Ukraine? Hah!

[–] dotslashme@infosec.pub 15 points 3 weeks ago

Thanks for posting who voted how. I really hate articles that say "18 countries opposed" and then fail to list which countries voted which way.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 14 points 3 weeks ago

Nice to have all the piece of shit countries highlighted in one table.

[–] AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip 11 points 3 weeks ago

As always, Orbán can suck my cock. Fucking pain in the ass he is.

[–] KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz 7 points 3 weeks ago

Find it funny how the russian federation isn't marked here in a special way as if they were gonna condemn their own war

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 6 points 3 weeks ago

Ukraine is so fucked... This is some weird time line.

Your next mile stone: US delivers artillery shells to Russia

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

BRICS countries all abstained. Not surprising as it's one of the founding members they'd putting under fire, which could doom their future

[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 5 points 3 weeks ago

so fucking pissed. so one president can come in and contradict a century of policy. why the fuck are our electorate so idiotic.

[–] NoSpotOfGround@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Interesting that South Korea didn't vote. And Japan voted for the resolution. I believe they usually follow along with the US's position, but I guess in this case interests diverged too much for docility.

[–] flamingos@feddit.uk 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

South Korea voted for it?

[–] NoSpotOfGround@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Oh... yes. I just assumed that "Democratic Rep of" was South Korea. That's probably the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

[–] rockerface@lemm.ee 2 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah, South Korea's official name is just Republic of Korea. It's confusing, but then it's difficult for it not to be