Hello it's me a trans woman. I knew before transition about some of it but never really understood. When I was masc I didn't realize how much of it was basically hidden in plain sight because of how I learned to socialize. After transitioning though omg it's everywhere. I'm in Seattle right now where I don't have to try too hard to pass and still get treated at least base line okay. Even then I still use my masc voice more than my femme voice because people take me more seriously when I do. Like there's a cultural acceptance of trans people here but if I behave more masc I get the privilege of being "one of the boys" even if I'm visually in full femme mode. It's all so weird

I told one of my friends that I'm being looked at differently in crowds now, and he just said "no you're imagining it".

Many people just do not believe what trans people tell them. At all.

I'm female presenting. I've known people who thought I was a cis woman for months, and I don't keep being nonbinary or trans a secret.

When I read actual cis women's accounts of misogyny, and also trans women's accounts, I can't relate. I don't get shut down the same way. Somehow, despite others perceiving me as female, I kept the tiny part of gender presentation that tells people to sit down and shut up when I'm talking as if I were a man. I don't understand what it is, but I still have it the same as before I transitioned.

I would love to know what it is so I can share it, but I can't tell why people respect me as much as they would respect a man. It's bewildering.

Religon is probably what initially does this to people's brains

Indoctrinating children into religious systems of arbitrary hierarchy gives little boys god complexes and makes little girls into property.

Idk I'm pretty hard rn

My wife was marked down on her PhD because she "wasn't nice enough" to her supervisor. All the assessors gave her top marks, but her supervisor vetoed them.

Glad to hear you at least had some decent colleagues!

I also am glad you got the support. I'm constantly reminded of a friend in college who was going through an electrical engineering undergrad with me. She got all the material so easily and literally dragged me through the classes. I wouldn't have passed some key topics without her help. Fast forward a few years and I'm getting my PhD and I decide to see what she is up to: she ended up quitting her PhD program because of the insane abuse and misogyny she experienced in the department and instead changed to a masters in music. This was a woman who could easily have made field changing discoveries but was shut down because of close minded individuals. It still makes me rage and is the reason I work so much harder now to ensure my female colleagues and employees have an equal voice at the table.

Selection bias, the people who don't discriminate aren't causing harm so you don't notice them but since they don't speak up they aren't helping either, so the jerks are still setting the tone. The solution is to not just do the right thing but actively call people out the jerks.

Personal experience from when I was newly an adult, and chatting with a female university classmate and somehow got on the topic of games and I started explaining what Steam was, because I just subconsciously assumed, her being a woman, didn't know.

She politely pointed out I had mansplained to her.

I am very thankful to her for the experience as it's stuck with me and saved me from making a fool of myself on more than one occasion since.

I'm sure there are possibly small things like this, that you may have been been "guilty" of in the past.

These men, are engaging in similar behaviour cranked up to 1000.

However, it's even more malicious with them, because it's not like the last 30 years or so haven't had constant and increasing messaging (in the anglosphere, at least) about feminism and ways in which women have been treated unfairly.

So, it's not like they haven't had the opportunity to reflect, and change.

In summary, yeah, it is kind of baffling, but I will say society, while largely better than 30 years ago, still does have structural as well as conscious and unconcious bias towards women.

So I'm not surprised people like this exist.

Something in me refuses to believe that these people knowingly and intentionally harm women. But it sure as hell looks intentional.

Most people don't do any of this "intentionally" in the sense that they are aware of the harm they cause. It doesn't even enter the realm of moral consideration.

To many, there is a genuine belief of superiority that is entirely subconscious. The easiest example is classic mysogyny in a relationship - the woman is "emotional" and therefore the man should be the one to handle "business". That's not just 1950s oppression. Some variation of that thought process is shockingly prevalent across generations.

That man doesn't really think he's harming his woman. He thinks he's helping, by being the man of the house. That same logic applies outside of romance. "I am more rational than she is, therefore I should talk now and she shouldn't."

That's not a thought. That's just a foundational belief that spawns all the other thoughts.

Ever been in an argument with another adult, and a child joined in with some naive half-informed emotional take on society?

An adult usually placates the child - explains, briefly, why they're wrong - and returns to arguing with the other adult.

That's how a lot of men see women by default. As inferior, naive, ill-informed, emotional creatures. Not consciously. Not intentionally. Many mysogynists genuinely seem to have the same intentions as the adult to the child - to placate and educate.

But its fucked up, and it's important to acknowledge that it simmers under he surface. The reason all of this is so complicated and messy is that it is so hard to see mysogyny for what it is.

You genuinely can't know if a single interaction with a single male was an example of mysogyny, because sometimes humans just condescend to each other. Sometimes humans are just shitty to each other.

But women experience so many of these experiences in aggregate that they can't give the benefit of the doubt to every man they meet, especially when the man himself might not understand his own implicit biases.

You're simply not paying attention, because you don't have to. Not to be harsh. I went from male to female and how I'm treated is night and day. You've never tried to see how the other side lives, and when you heard stories that went against your experiences you dismissed them like your mind is trying to do right now.

Why does it happen? Nurture. History. Patriarchy. I could blame a lot of things. It's mostly that men never get treated the way they treat women.

I think you're naive but in fairness, it is shocking and hard to believe.

I think people get defense around the idea of “male privilege” because they think it’s getting them something extra. It’s more all of the shit you don’t have to deal with.

But if you can turn that shit on like a tap why not do for everyone?

I would think because they aren't aware of it.

I had that with a contractor who had had my number for work purposes. He kept trying for 5 years.

I'm a butch lesbian, my mistake was being polite and chatty with him.

I was actually joining the chat to write that things are not that different in biology. I have a PhD and 7 years of postdocs behind me. Over the years I have :

• been denied a management position because "the team was only men, who wouldn't listen to me" (spoiler alert, they put an incompetent guy in charge who screwed up massively and I ended up taking over, successfully).
• had a boss who systematically doubted my opinion (while he was not a specialist of the topic) but listened to the very same argument from a male colleague
• had male Masters students who could speak uninterrupted during meetings when I couldn't
• got denied a tenure position for a guy with the same profile (literally the same topic and same labs) but much less experience than mine (like 5 years younger) This last one broke me, I ended up quitting academia