this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2025

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149

How can we make sure Zionists are held accountable when their genocide is over? (ttrpg.network)

submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by mesitoispro@ttrpg.network to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

47 comments fedilink hide all child comments

It looks like they're speedrunning to the finish line to get things over with as quickly as possible.

Since nothing is going to stand in their way, how can we make sure they are held accountable for generations to come?

Maybe we can have a day of remembrance for the Palestinians.

I'm afraid that once Israel has completed their genocide, the media cycle and influencers will ensure its never spoken about again.

How do we keep it fresh in people's minds until the perpetrators and/or their offspring face justice?

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[–] Bluetreefrog@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm going to leave this up as the question is not against the rules. However any suggestion of violence against any people will not be tolerated.

[–] FreakinSteve@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

So wildly ironic given the subject matter.

This thread is gonna be boring af

[+] Lembot_0003@lemmy.zip 58 points 1 month ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

We can’t. At least while the USA is a thing.

Even if the US wasn't a thing, punishing Zionists wouldn't be possible without subduing Israel through a literal war. Something which is not often attempted.

At best, we'd have the half-ass 'punishment' levied on states like Taliban-ruled Afghanistan, Djibouti, and North Korea, wherein the primary punishment is "It's slightly harder and more expensive for the elite to get their precious foreign luxuries."

Don't get me wrong, that's better than nothing. It's just...

Prevention is generally a more fruitful avenue than punishment, when it comes to international polities and ideologies even with just regional majorities.

The chance of seeing genocidal cunts swing, or even acknowledge their wrongdoing, are generally small. Even the worst genocide of modernity, the Holocaust, had only a relatively small number of Nazis punished, despite literally every major extant power agreeing on how horrific their behavior was, and quite literally destroying all military capacity for the Nazis to resist and occupying every inch of their territory.

At most, you might get a handful of them in international courts by internal politiking, like Slobodan Milošević, but even then we're unlikely to see the fully 'cathartic' end we want. "My dad is a war criminal" will still be sung proudly.

[–] Fizz@lemmy.nz 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

punishing Zionists wouldnt be possible without subduing Isreal through a literal war. Something that is not often attempted.

What is your threshold for often?

The best way to punish them is to give Isreali left wingers and "out" which allows them a path back to normalcy so they can take political power and condition that with punishment of high ranking war criminals and a two state solution. But this cant really happen due to the current US admin.

People will fight to the death if they're backed into a corner but they will throw a few people under the bus if given a path out.

But if by Zionists you mean anyone who wants isreal to exists then you are backing isrealis in to corner and guaranteeing the conflict continue to be played out.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

What is your threshold for often?

When was the last time a country with a functioning military was overthrown by outside intervention?

I guess we can count Iraq, though that requires connecting the First Gulf War and the Second, since the First Gulf War is when the Iraqi military was last seriously functioning.

The best way to punish them is to give Isreali left wingers and “out” which allows them a path back to normalcy so they can take political power and condition that with punishment of high ranking war criminals and a two state solution. But this cant really happen due to the current US admin.

I think you overestimate the appetite of the Israeli left-wing for normalcy, a serious two-state solution, or punishing war criminals. Like I said, at best, you'll get a handful of offenders from internal politiking. But the chance of there being some punishment for any significant percentage of the very large number of very active and intentional orchestrators of this genocide is... small. Zionism is unlikely to be meaningfully repulsed by anything but time, and that's assuming a best-case-scenario that the problem doesn't intensify.

People will fight to the death if they’re backed into a corner but they will throw a few people under the bus if given a path out.

Again, I consider that covered under my "Slobodan Milošević" scenario. Don't get me wrong, seeing Bibi die in a prison cell would be based and hilarious. But even that would only be a drop of water in the ocean of blood.

But if by Zionists you mean anyone who wants isreal to exists then you are backing isrealis in to corner and guaranteeing the conflict continue to be played out.

By Zionists, I presumed it was meant those who see Israel's existence as an explicitly Jewish apartheid state as core to its continuation. And as long as Israel remains Zionist in that sense, this shit will keep happening. Ethnostates are notoriously amiable to the whole lebensraum idea, regardless of whether it's currently-occupied territory they're looking at, or potentially occupied territory - or both.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Without US support, Israel's existence in the region is precarious as hell. We might not fully invade enemies often, but the Arabs definitely have.

(Edit: I drifted into actual prognostication here, the following applies either way)

The petrostates will necessarily collapse or fundamentally change exist post-oil, and peace between ethnicities in the short or medium term is not a realistic prediction, at this point. In 50 years I'm sure the region will be unrecognisable. I have no clue how, exactly, or what kind of people will live there.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

We might not fully invade enemies often, but the Arabs definitely have.

The days of massive Pan-Arab socialist coalitions are over, and even back when they were still a threat, Israel beat them off pretty handily without significant US support.

Threats to Israel at this point are largely not existential, and if they were changed to existential threats, further radicalization seems more likely than redress and reconciliation. Especially considering Israel's nuclear program.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I'm not expecting zombie Nasser, but they're stretched just fighting Lebanon and Gaza. I can't rule out that they might nuke everyone else and rule the resulting wasteland (and then, yes, no ICJ trials), but I'm not sure it'd be that easy, either. And, they might have blown up some centrifuges, but the possibility of another nuclear player in the region isn't gone.

Either way, the result isn't the Middle East we know now. Even without removing the US from the equation, I'm not expecting the status quo to last.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

My point isn't that they'd glass the Middle East, my point is that the threat of even small-scale nuclear warfare is enough to ensure that Israel might be pushed back from imperialist projects, but never existentially threatened without massive internal disorder.

I would argue that the Levant is the least likely region of the Middle East to change with the coming decline in oil.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I would argue that the Levant is the least likely region of the Middle East to change with the coming decline in oil.

Yes, I think that's kind of obvious. I don't know if they produce oil at all. Uhh... doesn't look like it. It's all geographically connected, though.

Do you think internal disorder is unlikely? There's broad disinterest in helping the Palestinians in any way, but Israeli society disagrees about nearly everything else.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Do you think internal disorder is unlikely? There’s broad disinterest in helping the Palestinians in any way, but Israeli society disagrees about nearly everything else.

I think disagreements in Israeli society are relatively weak insofar as they all adhere to a common vision of Israel as a Jewish apartheid state. As long as there's that to unite them - and make no mistake, at BEST 37/120 Knesset seats are held by non-Zionist parties, and more realistically, 14/120 - any crisis will bring together Israeli society in defense of that core existential concern.

Political disputes will continue, to very strong degrees. But there isn't going to be some mass defection from the core existential idea of Israel or Israeli sovereignty, including over its hypermilitarized state.

[–] rumimevlevi 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No matter how much it last no occupation live forever.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Uh, many occupations have done so, simply by genociding everyone of the 'wrong' ethnicity in the area.

'Good' doesn't always win. The world is not inherently just.

[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Probably robots or sapient crocodiles

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 month ago

That would be cool. I was more thinking Arabs vs. Jews vs. all abandoned vs. the Holy Republic of New America.

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 45 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The same way we held accountable the perpetrators of the genocides in Rwanda and Armenia and Tibet and Darfur and Myanmar and Bosnia and Lebanon and Indonesia.

[–] blimthepixie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 31 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I'm not that great with history but I'm going to guess the answer is fuck all?

[–] eksb@programming.dev 19 points 1 month ago

Correct.

Also the genocide of native Americans.

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Nailed it in one.

[–] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Like Jesus?

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

As I understand it, they used three nails.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Kind of like Israel did for fugitive Nazis after WW2. Clandestine snatch-and-grabs, followed by perfunctory trials and swift execution. In this case however, it's hard to imagine any star sponsorship, so it will likely fall upon citizens of good conscience everywhere

[–] FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

The disturbing part is we can count on state sponsorship, it’ll just be from our government to Bibi in the form of more bonbs.

[–] yesman@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

Stopping the genocide is a necessity. Getting "justice" for the genocide is a luxury.

Palestinians will not forget what happened. No matter the media cycle or influencers.

[–] Witchfire@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Step 1 is to get Daddy America out of that picture. As long as the US continues to be their bitch, Israel will never face punishment.

[–] Plesiohedron@lemmy.cafe 9 points 1 month ago

Behind the flags, propaganda, soldiers and murder it's always a bunch of billionaires looking for a nice investment. Every single time. You'll never bring them to court.

[–] Libra@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 month ago

Convince the US that Israeli accountability is in their geopolitical interests, because otherwise the US will continue to protect them and provide diplomatic cover against international law. And, uh, good luck with that.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Mostly, it's the same story as whatever genocide in Africa. I'm not worried about the ICJ handling it, unless Israeli officials complete their irony arc by fleeing to Argentina. Or just win and occupy the whole Middle East, somehow.

The extra thing that really needs to happen is a detailed inquiry into how they've so thoroughly dominated the narrative in the West, so we can prevent it from ever happening again. Apartheid South Africa was supposed to be the last evil faction we fully threw our lot in with.

[–] rah@hilariouschaos.com 6 points 1 month ago

How can we make sure Zionists are held accountable when their genocide is over?

You can't.

[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Israel showed the world how. They setup covert groups of Nazi hunters and went to work. The same strategy should work for any and all responsible for genocide.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Amazing how these Nazi hunters never went after west German capitalist class or us researchers... I guess not all Nazis are the same.

[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Why should they have gone after you? I don't understand.

EDIT: Oh! "US" as in U.S.A. Got it.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 3 points 1 month ago

👍

My point being these Nazi hunters were very selective to not go after the good Nazi 🤡

Which makes a lot more sense now that we see what isrselies are really about

[–] pugnaciousfarter@literature.cafe 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

There was definite political will behind those operations and at least tacit support from the western powers at the time. (But only for those nazis which they felt weren't useful to them).

I don't really see the same being possible with any country in the future. If there was any political will to do so, they already would have put pressure on them. And as far as I can tell, there's very little actual pressure on them.

So this isn't happening, unless the Palestinians are able to form a government of their own and get support from a major superpower with which their interests align.

[–] Yareckt@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Offsprings facing judgement for their parents is fucked up. They didn't choose their parents. As for getting the Palestinians justice after their genocide: realisticaly we can only try to make the right wing Israelis see them as equal humans after a few generations or support Israel's left so they push them out. To do that we have to keep telling the Palestinians story. As for the real history beeing erased: as I currently see it the support for Israels actions is dwindling in the western countries. So I don't think the narrative beeing replaced is realistic. There also is too much evidence for what happened. Israel isn't all powerful.

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[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 1 points 1 month ago

Thermonuclear annihilation during WW3.

[–] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 month ago

You can even hold your own politicians accountable lmao

[–] HurlingDurling@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

Key word is "when" because currently they are throwing blows with Iran. But to answer your question, probably never as we would need a near apocalyptic event to tumble our current power structure everywhere to allow us to hold them accountable.