Ask Lemmy

You are not

Social media is the front of the house.

What destroyed the internet are the cabal of Corporations monetizing every interaction and directing flows from the back of the house.

Unfettered Capitalism killed the internet experience.

Community has been replaced by the trough.

We could go back to the old internet any time we wanted, but people have been supping on the convenience aspect of having everything bundled into easy-to-digest "apps" that they would have to deprogram themselves first and come to understand that finding shit on the old internet used to take work. Small wonder that people hear that X (formerly Twitter) is going to be the "everything app" and like the idea of that. I personally find it horrifying how many people are glued to social media, and meanwhile I've never had a Facebook account, never had Twitter, never had TikTok, and I'm still doing just fine.

We let corporations get their sticky fingers on everything, so now everything has to be profitable or it isn't worth anybody's time. Even YouTube videos are now all about maximizing engagement, interaction, and viewer retention so that the uploader can collect a paycheck from Google. I don't give a fuck about whatever excuses they use to justify it, people still made great quality content before YouTube partnered with people for revenue sharing.

If TOR wasn't so godawfully slow, I'd be using TOR and visiting .onion sites for everything. It perfectly recreates that "old internet" feeling of web design that has function over form and small communities built around niche topics.

In its Facebook and onward phase, yes I agree. Prior to that we had this wonderful site called Livejournal where you could privately blog to a select group of friends, and it was the absolute best way to brain dump, have people give you real advice, and make the best online friends. Yes it had much controversy when it was bought by a Russian company, I can point you to a podcast if you want more detail on that, and certainly there was drama sometimes, but I would give a lot to just talk to my friends as a group that way again and really know each other deeply that way again, and other than the odd very ignorable ad, you weren't forced to be part of an algorithm or AI horseshit or fake news or verified accounts or any of that garbage. You could buy a permanent account for 100 dollars for the added features, but that was basically started to keep the site running after it took off. It really was beautiful and helpful and loving and felt organic and true for that time.

Have you ever noticed how hard it is for novels or TV or any other fictional platform to include anything about smartphones or using social media? When it is mentioned it feels very awkward and forced into the narrative.

The small communities are still there, you just don't visit them because you are on social media (like lemmy). Forums are still there. IRC is still there. Hell, even BBS and Usenet is still there if you really want to go that way.

The Internet started going downhill around 2010, this is nothing new

Only a fool or a 12 year old would think otherwise. Back in the late ‘90’s, the web had a great sense of community. On forums, IRC, places like Cybertown, etc. You had smaller communities where you could reasonably know most users. They had a human scale; like a friendly neighbourhood.

Modern social media is definitely terrible. It happened because we were too welcoming. Back in those days, the web was a nerd domain. We all shared the same sort of interests and optimism for the future of the web. You had to BE a nerd to get online. To WANT to be online.

But now that it’s too easy for everyone to get on, the idiots have taken over. We really should kick everyone off the web who can’t name at least three characters from either Star Wars or Star Trek.

You don't consider Lemmy to be social media?

It's not social media that did it. It's monopolistic, unregulated, greedy, giant tech corporations that made the internet shitty.

"social media" as buzzword (scientific speech, scientific image) and "social media" as political violence (commercial speech, manifest image) are two different beasts under the empire of law.

Does anybody not think that?

Not social media. Capitalism.

The internet was ALWAYS social (e.g. telnet). It wasn’t ruined by people using technology to connect, it was ruined by capitalism finding new, insidious ways to monetize the human social drive.

Nah. Just corpos.

social media has destroyed the spirit of the internet?

I’ve known Lemmy for a few hours and I feel like I’m back in the early spirit of the internet.

I mean, Lemmy is social media. You might dislike centralized social media or something, but...

Yeah its definitely just you...

https://medium.com/@darianoneil/because-the-internet-how-social-media-ruined-music-ec2022282aa4

https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/18tm3i8/cmv_social_media_is_destroying_western_society/

https://listverse.com/2021/05/24/top-10-ways-social-media-is-ruining-the-world/

https://www.bernsteinresearch.com/CMSObjectBR/Files/Recruiting/Global%20Internet%20-%20Has%20TikTok%20Ruined%20The%20Internet.pdf

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/01/long-youtube-videos-tiktok/677130/

https://knowyourbest.com/social-media-ruined-society/

https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/how_social_media_brings_out_the_worst_in_us

It's not 2017-18 social media, friend. It's just late state capitalism.

And the lion's share of it can be traced to increasing real estate and rent prices.

The early Internet was social media, but it wasn't so corporatized to the point of being ruined.

Which Douglas Rushkoff book is this concept again? I've lost track.

The internet keeps dying again and again. It started as a research project turned into a way to aid research. Then the sphere grew as nerds found a space to connect with other nerds. It was a community space where people knew each other. The only big source of trouble was each year, in September, when a new crop of kids gained access to the internet at their college. They had to be educated in the social structures and ethos of the culture they were stepping into.

Then, in the early nineties, the spirit of the internet died, in the Eternal September, as ISPs encouraged non-nerds to enter the cyber world. The community was flooded with more new people than could ever be trained to follow the cultural standards that had been established, and so they simply overwhelmed the capacity of the society to maintain itself.

Then those people began creating a new culture, a multiculture, with communities and sites forming around anyone with a bit of passion they wanted to share with the world wide web. People taught themselves web development just to share pictures of their families and poetry about their favorite trees.

But then, the spirit of the internet died. Advertisers wanted to take advantage of the new space to which everyone seemed to be devoting so much attention. They started monetizing sites. Creating sites became less and less about sharing your passion, and more and more about generating ad revenue.

And the internet persisted. Despite the disgust of the users, nothing seemed to stop the influx of capital into the community. And then came encryption, allowing people to even buy and sell things online. The internet died again, becoming a giant mall, a place you went to find stuff to buy rather than people to talk to.

And then came social media. It took the idea loved by so many of the early pioneers of the internet, that everyone could have their own site, dedicated to whatever they loved most, and centralized it. Friendster, sixdegrees, MySpace, and so on. With this change, the spirit of the web died again, commercializing even the idea of your personal page, your digital representation of yourself.

It has died. It will die again. Nothing can be relied upon.

Social media is a great idea, honestly. What's ruined it is the same thing that ruins everything - money men.

Its not so much social media that ruined it, as capitalism and centralization.

Forums themselves are a form of social media, and they're (mostly) great. For Reddit and Lemmy, debatably the best part is the social elements, like the comments sections. The problem isn't the interaction or the "social" nature of it. Its that these platforms have turned into psudo-monopolies intent on controlling people and/or wringing them for every penny.

Thats not to say toxicity and capitalistic exploitation didn't exist before either. The term "flame war" is older than a lot of adults today. Unlike today though, platforms were both more decentralized meaning they were easier to manage and users could switch platform, and were less alorithmic meaning that users could more easily avoid large, bad-faith actors. You'll notice the Fediverse have both these qualities, which is part of why its done so well.

IMO, the best fix to this, would be twofold. A) break up the big monopolies and possibly the psudo-monopolies. Monopolies bad, simple enough. B) Much more difficult, but I believe that what content a site promotes, including algorithmically, should be regulated. Thats not to say sorting algorithms should be banned, but I think we need to regulate how they're used and implemented. For example, regulations could include things like requiring alternative algorithms be offered to users, banning "black box" algorithms, requiring the algorithns be publicly published, and/or banning algorithms that change based on an individual's engagement. Ideally, this would give the user more agency over their experience and would reduce the odds of ignorant users being pushed into cult-like rabbit-holes.

Whenever I get overwhelmed by the modern web, I go to http://wiby.me/ and click "surprise me..."

It's a search engine that only spits out "real" webpages that were made by people like you and me. Very refreshing.