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That "if a man sleeps with another man and they shall be stoned" (not a native English) verse is wrongly translated iirc. In old Hebrew there is a word that specifically means "man who is not yet an adult" - and back then you were an adult with 14 I think.
It was never about being gay is sinful, it was about molesting children being a sin.
Well hell, they don't like that rule at all
Right? No wonder they all make it about The Gays.
It was never about being gay is sinful, it was about molesting children being a sin.
Yeah, but no republican wants to hear that their favorite activity is a sin.
Similarly a lot of the stuff about sodomy was about rape. Regardless I don't think we should use religious texts as the basis for morals.
molesting children is a sin
Nowadays that's a prerequisite if you want to be a republican politician.
Stop stop, he's already de- oh wait.
Sorry is this how he died… I just got out of my rock..
basically. Someone was showing him that trans people are basically underrepresented in mass shootings, while Kirk et al claim the opposite; and his last words were "counting or not counting gang violence" which is a racist dogwhistle.
And then, (and this is unverified but it appears to be true) a member of a rival white mayonnaise gang capped his ass in broad daylight.
Edit IM LEAVING IT IT'S FUNNIER THAN THE TRUTH AND ALSO A LITTLE TRUE
No, it was actually a piano stealthily hung from a nearby rooftop, which the perpetrator cut down with some comically oversized scissors.
You're doing it wrong. You are supposed to cut and publish only parts where Kirk owns the libs
The extensive attention to curation, editing, and deleting was the whole point of the manufactured reality being pushed.
editing videos like that is the equivalent to winning arguments in the shower
If only. In the year 2025, it apparently captures hearts and minds. I know because Boomers send this heavily edited shit constantly.
Charlie Kirk would have called Jesus a communist.
Then crucified him and blame the Muslims...
Charlie Kirk never liked free speech
I didn't know I could watch the same piece of shit get murdered twice, but here we are.
Still missing the point that he is free to read and believe anything he likes, but a book of ancient mythology shouldn't have any influence at all in developing 21st century social/political policy.
Ultimately, that is going to be the final outcome of his argument - either follow ALL the Bible's demands, or follow none of them - but that's too many steps for MAGAs. The answer is simple: It's in the 1st Amendment. If they want to know more, they can go get a real education. It's time to stop coddling these ignorant traitors.
So what is the response? I feel like these clips are great. But if he makes a great point after, isn't it setting a trap where you share this and the response is his rebuttal which could be good or bad
As the other person said he ends up saying he still doesn't like it but there is still a challenge. The reason Charlie says it's reaffirmed in Mathew about the gays is because everything the student brings up is the old testament and Jesus already died to erase those sins. Bringing up Leviticus trying to make a point doesn't work if you believe in the new testament.
Good thing Charles set the trap himself by saying morality is objective and unchanging. That must either mean God commanded things that were not moral (which is against their worldview), or that burning women, killing disobedient children, taking people as slaves for life, and stoning people for working on the Sabbath are morally permissible.
It's usually impossible for them to concede God did anything wrong, so they have to justify numerous atrocities.
Pretty obvious Kirk has no education since high school. He flunked out of Harper after one semester.
Had no education...*
Though this is hilariously funny, this is the list basic argument against just about any religion, the cherry picking, and I'm still waiting for a fucking answer. Why doesn't Charlie burn himself to death? I mean, I can imagine that that hole in his neck makes that hard to do for him right now, but why doesn't he? Why doesn't every Christian out there burn and stone themselves to death for their continuous sinning?
Or if not, you know, admit that they're plain wrong about their entire view on life?
What was the rebuttal?
I'm going to stick my neck out and say it was something stupid and ignorant.
Careful, kirk warned us about sticking our necks out
He really gushed on about it
Poured his heart out, he did.
Well, someone did.
watched the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZPWbpOnZ-8
Kirk actually has a good point in that those lines are from the old testament, which Christians believe doesn't apply, and only believe in the new testament. Assuming Kirk is right that it isn't in the new testament ( the Cambridge speaker doesn't contest it either, for whatever that is worth). From the the student then pivots to talking about a new testament description along the lines of: Man shall not sleep with man, which he says can be interpreted differently than man and man and could be man and prostitute. Kirk contends that the traditions and interpretations were created during the time that the writings were created, and so there is no loss of translation then, and those understandings have been passed down until down consistently. I will say, i've summised this, but it is a lot more of a meandering argument afterwards that is not very interesting to watch.
I feel like the cambridge student shouldn't have even brought up the lines in videos above because it doesn't completely apply to Kirk's religious beliefs. The student studied the bible decently enough to make his point, but it seemed he needed additional context of Kirk's beliefs to make a strong point against Kirk.
those understandings have been passed down until down consistently.
[x] Doubt
Sacred tradition? Was Kirk Catholic? And if not why not? Just a grab bag of pick and choose your tradition? Both Protestants and Catholics say that will send you straight to hell. Might as well call yourself a gnostic if you're going that route (though many of them didn't have sex hangups).
If they don't believe in the old testament, why do they want the 10 commandments put up in schools?
There are no mainstream Christian denominations that don't believe that the Old Testament is the word of their God, so I'm not sure how the student could have prepared for that particular nonsense juke
Most Christians believe they live under the New Covenant and not Old Testament law.
You are right that it is widely accepted as the word of God though.
So.
Here's an idea.
A cynical take on Christian nationalism pushing for ONLY the things in the bible that are utterly absurd and contrary to modern society.
Like, making an actual push for ONLY the shit that no one would could possibly take seriously.
I'm no bible scholar but I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff in the New Testament that we could cherry pick as well.
It's not really a good point, it's just classic cherrypicking. Jesus himself said in Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." so clearly the old testament law should still apply. Christians are just faced with the reality that they could not live their life in accordance with old testament law in todays age, and have therefore chosen to ignore laws from the old testament.
he actually didn’t dodge anything, nor did he make a good point.
he stated that morals and right and wrong are immutable/unchanging.
so Charlie is now trapped to make a choice,
A. he’s wrong and morality is dependent on the situation, and so his whole platform regarding how he treats minorities has no justification.
B. he’s wrong and his god purposely demanded atrocities, and was wrong in the past, and is fallible, in which case his whole platform can’t be considered moral based on the teachings of his god.
so his answer is he still didn’t like it, which is him admitting defeat but refusing to decide in which way he believes his god is wrong
Charlie dodged the point. If morals are objective and unchanging, then it must be the case that either:
Or
Fucking hate shit like this.
BURN!
Well, uh, could I see the reply.
NO!
Ironically enough, this shows how Kirk was actually at least somewhat better than most of the right wing pundits.
He would actually allow others to have the mic. He actually lets the dude speak. If not for that, you couldn't have a video of him being made to look the fool.
Most of them will refuse to interact, shouting down questions, trying to cut off counterpoints, only interacting via one-way streams and speeches. Generally cowardly refusing to vaguely risk a difficult talking point arise.
He said vile things, but he at least let others speak. And now the right wing is on a crusade to try to suppress any voice that would have stood against, rather than letting them speak.
Cremated, even
This whole thing was already played out on the TV series "The West Wing", and I'm fairly sure that Aaron Sorkin got it from somewhere else.
https://www.tv-quotes.com/shows/the-west-wing/quote_13962.html
Edit: It appears that the original author is Kent Ashcraft:
Source: https://www-users.york.ac.uk/~ss44/joke/laura.htm#author