256
submitted 1 year ago by genfood@feddit.de to c/europe@feddit.de
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] julianwgs@discuss.tchncs.de 75 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is the wrong statistic! It doesnt matter how often you take the train, but how far you go. There is something called a passenger kilometer. Someone traveling one kilometer by train makes one passenger kilometer, 6 people on a train going 10 kilometers makes 60 passenger kilometers. The same can be done for other modes of transportation. The modal split (the right statistic) then shows how much each mode of transportation is actually used. Here you can find the statistic for each country of the EU: https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/daviz/passenger-transport-modal-split-2#tab-chart_1

A few examples why modal split is better than frequencies:

  • Environmentally CO2 is emitted per kilometer. Someone may bike a short distance everyday to work, but visits his parents who live far away every weekend by car.
  • On the way to work someone could take the car and the train on the same commute.
[-] yata@sh.itjust.works 43 points 1 year ago

It isn't necessarily wrong, it's just two different metrics meant to measure two different concepts.

[-] julianwgs@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 year ago

Thanks for your comment. Not wrong in the sense that the data is wrong or faked, but that the metric is not useful. Especially when better metrics are readily available for that region. Can you name me one prediction or result which you can infer from the frequency of train travel other than „fun facts“? (I am actually really curious :) ). With the modal split you can for example calculate CO2 emissions or estimate needed capacity increases if you want to replace one mode with another and much more.

[-] kraxelkatze@feddit.de 18 points 1 year ago

I think the number of trips says a lot about the role trains play in people's everyday lives, maybe even more than the kilometers travelled. Sure, that's not a "metric", but it does give us an idea if people use trains just for vacation a few times a year, or for their commute to work or other daily trips. For someone taking a train just once a year, even if that is for hundeds of kilometers, we know that they will use a different means of transportation for most trips.

[-] cestvrai@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

I really like when I can just show up at the station and jump of a train without the need to consult a timetable beforehand. Not sure what you can infer, but I value frequency!

[-] theoretiker@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago

That unfortunately is the other kind of frequency, an not the one depicted in the graph

[-] cestvrai@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

Ah, right. I misunderstood the graphic…

[-] Spzi@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

Yes, absolutely a game changer. Maybe comparable to having your car parked in front of your house vs the need to rent a car for each trip.

[-] crispy_kilt@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago

Switzerland is also on top for person-kilometres.

[-] Tar_alcaran@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Model split also has it's downsides. For example:

Not every trip is the same in every country. Denmark commutes 22km on average, the Netherlands does 3km

Not every country travels as far. Someone who does 10km by train out of 100km has a much greater share than 20km out of 10.000.

[-] Paul_279@feddit.de 4 points 1 year ago

Germany, would be better in Case you would measure the time that it takes to travel.

Danks ju för traffeling Wiss Deutsche Bahn ...

[-] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 year ago

Even that has problems. German railways might not be on time, but most of the main lines are upgraded to 200km/h and some new lines are even faster. So compared to for example Switzerland that means higher speed, but it is much more likely to be delayed.

[-] Paul_279@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

The main reasons of which the German trains are mostly to late are Not enough Tracks for all the trains and Not enough people who works at Deutsche Bahn.

If we would like that more people taking the train, we need also more acces to trains, that means more trainstations in villages Connected to the railway systhem

[-] MonkCanatella@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

Sweet link! These stats are really cool. Low car and high bus usage seem to be very linked to poorer (relatively) countries. High train usage in general seems to be much wealthier countries, yet those countries also have way more car usage. Also this is very incomplete without looking at bicycle usage, and walking of course. This makes the percentages even more misleading because it's a percentage among sampled transportation modes

[-] julianwgs@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 year ago

Thanks, and good observations. Many countries (Germany and the Netherlands for example) have statistics for every mode of transportation, which as you said is way more informative. I just quickly grabbed the first statistic I could find for the EU to be honest :D

Here is the data for Germany: https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/daten/verkehr/fahrleistungen-verkehrsaufwand-modal-split#undefined

For the Netherlands they have the data split by county which is very interesting. In the bike capital Utrecht still 50% of all passenger kilometers belong to car travel. I cant find the government website right now.

[-] MonkCanatella@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Wow, those are still way too high for car travel. I wonder how that'd compared to turkey, as they have 61% car travel but that's not counting biking or walking.

[-] Spzi@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Interesting! For example, while Switzerland and Turkey appear on opposite sides of the spectrum in OP, they are close to each other in the modal split. And Turkey has even much less car use than Switzerland! 61.6% vs 77.7%. Apparently, taking the bus is very common in Turkey. With 36.6% more than any other country has in train and bus combined.

And while Germany looks literally green in the upper half in OP, modal split shows it's car dependency with 85.4%.

[-] Wirrvogel@feddit.de 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I fully understand not wanting to use a train in Greece.
https://www.dw.com/en/greece-train-crash-government-admits-decades-of-failure/a-64864913

A probe into the tragedy would focus on the "chronic delays in implementing railway works, delays caused by chronic public sector malaise and decades of failure," government spokesman Yiannis Economou told reporters in Athens.

That said, I feel all European countries, maybe except of Switzerland, have failed to proper care for their rail infrastructure and missed the chance to convince more people to travel with trains instead of cars. :(

[-] bi_tux@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

At least not in urban areas in Austria

I mean no country could afford to build a trainstation in every village

[-] iByteABit@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Correction: trains in Greece are no longer public sector. They are all owned by Ferrovie dello stato italiane, the failure of setting up failsafes and maintenance are because it wasn't profitable enough to do so.

[-] Not_Gerard@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

Where is The Netherlands? We have loads of trains. Covid ok, but ??

[-] Justchilling@feddit.nl 5 points 1 year ago

I travel by train sometimes yet i've never seen a train remotely full here in my life. I've seen fuller trains going to the alpes than than those going to Amsterdam. This may be different during rush hours but outside of the rush hours trains are quite empty.

[-] jayemecee@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

I'm literally sitting on a train from Utrecht to ams. The previous one was so full that security needs to tell people to stop pushing. This one is also so full there are 0 free spots and the middle of the carriage is full too. Maybe it is you who don't travel by train that much over here, no?

[-] TinaGurner@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

It has been an absolute shit show this evening though. Just spent two hours at Amsterdam Centraal trying to get back to Utrecht. Got on about 8 different trains and they all ended up cancelled.

[-] jayemecee@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Oof, I feel you, came to see the champions league at a friend's house, hope the trains have normalized by the end of the games

[-] DeLift@feddit.nl 6 points 1 year ago

My experience is quite the opposite, but then again I'm always taking the train during rush hour

[-] Justchilling@feddit.nl 3 points 1 year ago

Seem's fair. I just think the fact that the non rush hour traffic is so low is making the Netherlands be lower on the list. I wasn't exaggerating when I said that I saw fuller trains going to literal mountains.

[-] jojo@beehaw.org 18 points 1 year ago

The Netherlands is very much missing from this

[-] tdawg@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Feel like the title could just as easily have been “countries with the best train infrastructure”

[-] rikudou 3 points 1 year ago

Nah, that would be inaccurate. The country with the densest train infrastructure in the world (Czechia) is missing altogether from the image. I call bullshit.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] nicolairathjen@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

2021 has got to be a bad sample year with COVID lockdowns differing from country to country, right?

[-] bstix@feddit.dk 10 points 1 year ago
[-] nicolairathjen@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Oh great! Seems like the data is at the very least comparable, although the numbers are a bit deflated.

[-] a4ng3l@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah in Belgium if I’m not mistaken I didn’t go much to the office in 2021… I think I dropped my abonnement for the train that year.

[-] bob_lemon@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago

https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/09/22/riding-the-rails-which-country-travels-the-most-by-train-in-europe

Here's the article this image arms to be based on, which includes many more counties.

[-] vinhill@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago

Finland is missing

[-] rikudou 6 points 1 year ago

That looks like bullshit. Or it's at least missing some data. Czechia, by the very nature of being in the middle of Europe, we have the densest train network which in turn means our trains go even to the smallest of shitholes and it's very common to take a train somewhere.

[-] ToxicWaste@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago

This does not seem to be true. According to Wikipedia the Czech Republic has 9567 km of railways. This leaves them with a density of 0.121299336891 Railway/km².

Switzerland, which was listed as the densest in the Article, has 5317 km of railways. This leaves them with a density of 0.128787695288 Railway/km².

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_rail_transport_network_size

Keep in mind, that the dates of the data collection are 3 years apart (Czechia 2017, Switzerland 2020).

Well sure but that’s because Switzerland has a pretty awesome and geographically-appropriate-for-its-size train system.

[-] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 3 points 1 year ago

Also, the flag’s a big plus

[-] Spzi@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

What does that mean? I'm not sure if I correctly interpret that as somewhat dismissive, as if a good train system was a given or not. It's the result of political will and investment.

in 2017, Germany invested €69 per citizen in its railways, ahead of France's €38 and Spain's €32. It's still far behind other countries, however, with Switzerland and Austria investing €362 and €187 per citizen respectively.

A bit like when you get Zerg rushed in Starcraft and say "Well sure but that's because they built so many units early on". It's a decision, and becoming good in that metric was precisely the intent. Also not to do so is a decision. Unlike in Starcraft, the decision to neglect your public transport is not a similarly viable strategy.

[-] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I mean that Switzerland has a local and regional rail system that is damn near perfectly sized, scaled, and engineered for its geography and citizenry, which also integrates pretty well with the rail systems of all of its neighbors.

They could have made faster trains, but with the way they wanted to run them, it made more sense to design the rolling stock to have good top speed, but excellent acceleration, thus improving the average speed more meaningfully than a higher top speed would. The rail network is fairly pervasive - you can from and to just about anywhere in Switzerland using trains, with perhaps a bit of bus travel tacked onto either end.

Source: was just over there a couple months ago visiting a family friend, and used the train system a lot.

[-] IoSapsai@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

As a train traveler in Bulgaria (absent from this statistic but present in the one posted in the comments), I can vouch for our low rates of train commute (still 3 times higher than Greece) The car culture is going strong with everyone using their own vehicle. A lot of places are barely reachable by bus and unreachable by train. It takes longer and there are delays. The security is questionable with creeps causing trouble fairly often, despite police always being present. It's rather dirty, the trains are mostly Soviet era. We can't talk about air conditioning, only open windows (which you prop open with an item that you're not afraid to lose) and scorching radiators.

Despite all that I love commuting by train. I can sit comfortably, stretch, walk around, use the (very poor) toilet if needed. I can cross stitch when creeps don't try to talk to me, I try to sit around grannies that take interest at most. It's cheap, you can go from the coast to Sofia in about 7 hours for 15 euros, half if you have a card. It's easier to talk with the person I'm traveling with. The scenery of rural Bulgaria is absolutely beautiful, and best of all - No motion sickness!

[-] SmashnBen@jlai.lu 3 points 1 year ago

My country has 0 trains.

[-] dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[-] petersr@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Might be an EU average.

[-] GhostlyPixel@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Quite a lot of Italians use rail travel, at least that’s what it seemed to me when I was there for a few weeks. The trains and stations definitely felt a little dated, especially after I took a few Belgian trains, but they were better than anything available in the states.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2023
256 points (95.7% liked)

Europe

8324 readers
1 users here now

News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, 🇩🇪 ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures

Rules

(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)

  1. Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
  2. No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
  3. No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.

Also check out !yurop@lemm.ee

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS