this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2025
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THE POLICE PROBLEM

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    The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.

    99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.

    When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.

    When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."

    When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.

    Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.

    The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.

    All this is a path to a police state.

    In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.

    Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.

    That's the solution.

♦ ♦ ♦

Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.

♦ ♦ ♦

RULES

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Saying ~~cops~~ ANYONE should be killed lowers the IQ in any conversation. They're about killing people; we're not.

Please don't dox or post calls for harassment, vigilantism, tar & feather attacks, etc.

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It you've been banned but don't know why, check the moderator's log. If you feel you didn't deserve it, hey, I'm new at this and maybe you're right. Send a cordial PM, for a second chance.

♦ ♦ ♦

ALLIES

!abolition@slrpnk.net

!acab@lemmygrad.ml

r/ACAB

r/BadCopNoDonut/

Randy Balko

The Civil Rights Lawyer

The Honest Courtesan

Identity Project

MirandaWarning.org

♦ ♦ ♦

INFO

A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions

Adultification

Cops aren't supposed to be smart

Don't talk to the police.

Killings by law enforcement in Canada

Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom

Killings by law enforcement in the United States

Know your rights: Filming the police

Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)

Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.

Police lie under oath, a lot

Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak

Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street

Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States

So you wanna be a cop?

When the police knock on your door

♦ ♦ ♦

ORGANIZATIONS

Black Lives Matter

Campaign Zero

Innocence Project

The Marshall Project

Movement Law Lab

NAACP

National Police Accountability Project

Say Their Names

Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration

 

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[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 8 points 7 hours ago

Awesome. Force the police to identify themselves.

[–] foggy@lemmy.world 12 points 7 hours ago

Just waiting for someone to dress up like ICE and kidnap ICE so we can have ICE with our ICE

Yo dawg...

[–] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 16 points 8 hours ago

It is like they should be identifiable. I forgot, but a member of congress made a good point how police have arrested way more dangerous people with their face and ID showing.

Nobody believes the made up attacks on ICE they just don't want the social backlash of being casted out of their communities.

[–] Smoogs@lemmy.world 11 points 8 hours ago

All maga are terrorists. It is a terrorist organization.

[–] lefixxx@lemmy.world 20 points 10 hours ago (3 children)

He low key helped show why we want law officers to have a branded uniform, name tag and provide ID.

[–] pleasegoaway@lemm.ee 1 points 49 minutes ago
[–] glitch1985@lemmy.world 7 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

And wearing a mask to hide your identity while performing your job function is pretty sus.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 4 points 9 hours ago

Given the photos, this guy didn't even use a mask! He could have gone full bear and been even more protected from discovery.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago

I mean, sure that would be a nice fringe benefit of police reform.

But this was only possible because of the terror police inspire by their mere presence. Nobody is willing to fight back against this guy for fear he's an actual officer. Nobody has any faith in the Real Police (assuming this guy wasn't actually a cop who decided to moonlight as a robber) finding and stopping this guy.

It isn't as though the crook couldn't have slapped a "Hi I'm Jim_" name tag on his chest and done the exact same thing. You have to believe knowing the officer's identify would result in some consequence to the owner of the gear in order to see that as a material benefit.

[–] fodor@lemmy.zip 39 points 14 hours ago

To be clear, the ice people are also criminals, it's just a different crime.

[–] jhonmu648@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 10 hours ago

ICE peoples are criminals

[–] Almacca@aussie.zone 12 points 13 hours ago

Many commenters totally predicted this sort of thing.

[–] Snowclone@lemmy.world 24 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

How many ''ICE'' agents does it take to empty out a bank? I'm thinking of writing a Hollywood film.

[–] DMCMNFIBFFF@lemmy.world 5 points 10 hours ago

"We're seizing this money as evidence!"

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[–] altkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 19 hours ago

Remember the right claiming Floyd protesters were all looters? Itso happens whenever the nation is in distress (in this economical and societal context) the smartest of potential crimedoers would take that as an opportunity. Whenever it's some natural disaster or social conflict, there would be some to use it. And it's fucking frightening that America came to the point that the thing that bothers us is that thugs didn't have a real license to do thugs' things, and every other article going by the #ICE tag is not just stealing, but kidnapping people into Salvador camps, so getting mugged by fake ICE officer is better than meeting the real ones now? It's a fucking circus.

[–] billbasher@lemmy.world 8 points 15 hours ago

Yeah anyone now with a security/police/ice/military uniform is not acting with the constitution and is labeled a threat. They are not in charge of public safety anymore

[–] Wilco@lemm.ee 92 points 1 day ago (6 children)

Only one thing to do now. We have to treat all ICE agents like armed criminals until they show their face, a badge, and a warrant.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 3 points 11 hours ago

Starting yesterday?

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 7 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

This is something I've thought about a lot. Obviously this is not legal advice, don't try this shit based on this comment. Say a cop shows up to your door with a warrant and says "Let me in to search your house." How the fuck am I supposed to react to this? If a cop asks to search something, you should always say no (unless there's some sort of implied consent like breathalyzers in Georgia for drivers). But if they have a warrant, how do I even know it's a real warrant? I'm not a legal expert. I don't wanna sound like a sovereign citizen type who believes random words make you immune to things but I feel like the proper thing to do is say something like "I don't consent, but I'm not resisting." Then just stand there. Don't close the door, but don't open it more either.

Like imagine a vampire. Right? They can only come in if they're invited. As humans we use certain phrases to make orders sound like requests to be polite. I used to get in trouble with my mom as a kid because of it. She'd say things like "Please do X" and I'd protest saying because she's saying please it's like she's asking, not telling. That's not necessarily the best example of it, but it helps demonstrate the point. "Let me do X" is sort of a request to be given permission to do X without actually asking to do X. If they have a warrant, why ask at all? Why not just come in?

Idk, I pray that I'm never in a situation like this.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 5 points 15 hours ago

If you are peaceful minded then speed dial your lawyer and follow their instructions.

If you want to use the castle doctrine then you have to do a lot of homework first.

[–] arin@lemmy.world 46 points 1 day ago

I saw zero indications that ICE agents weren't criminals before this.

[–] throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works 18 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Something something... bad guy with a gun... good guy with a gun?

So lets be the good guys with guns. Every American should perform citizens arrest on these so called "ICE Agents", if there is resistance, you are entitiled to use lethal force to defend yourself. 😏

Kidding, don't actually do this...

Unless... 🤔

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[–] davidagain@lemmy.world 48 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

If ICE agents behave like criminal thugs why wouldn't criminal thugs behave like ICE agents?

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 points 8 hours ago

For all we know, this guy is active duty ICE and just robbing people in his free time.

[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 16 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

or they are one in the same, ooh.

[–] shneancy@lemmy.world 7 points 12 hours ago

i think a guy who steals a $1000 is still overall a more decent human being than a guy who kidnaps and imprisons people because, well, he didn't like the vibe (of their skin colour or accent)

imagine the relief of that latino woman when instead of being taken and thrown into a cage with no way to get out or prove her citizenship status the guy just took some money.

ICE are worse than thugs

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[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 110 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

Or was he a real ICE agent with a side hustle?

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[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 251 points 1 day ago (31 children)

In authoritarian regimes it isn't uncommon for the state officers and soldiers to engage in casual theft along side their official duties. With the way our country is going, there is a non-zero chance this was an actual ICE officer just working his "side hustle".

[–] ReputedlyDeplorable@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

It’s already been happening, it’s documented in this Afroman song Edit: 3:50 timestamp

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago

I know it happens with other law enforcement. I even posted a link to a police officer fired for stealing just a few days ago. However, I was specifically talking about ICE, which isn't what Afroman was talking about, but this thread is.

[–] Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world 4 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

As a non-American this is really one of the weirdest things about ICE. Why don’t they do their raids in uniform/with badge and face uncovered (perhaps apart from tactical headgear) like any other law enforcement agency? Even when arresting terrorists/mobsters you would expect the cops to be identifiable.

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

Why don’t they do their raids in uniform/with badge and face uncovered (perhaps apart from tactical headgear) like any other law enforcement agency?

As far as I know the plain clothes arrests and covered faced raids are new artifacts of the GOP's trump administration. I think there may have been plain clothes investigators before for some undercover work, but never used in the way it is today.

There are two reasons, I think, they are doing it today.

  1. Masks add anonymity and reduce accountability. These folks are deeply disliked and under the hoods and masks, yet they're people with homes and families. They need to conceal their identity so their actions don't follow them home.

  2. The trump administration wants a law enforcement arm with broad authority to arrest and detain with federal powers. ICE and CBP (Customs and Border Protection) have broad sweeping powers in the most populated portions of our country.

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[–] Awesomo85@sh.itjust.works -2 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (2 children)

All I see is peaceful looting, surely they are insured.

This is not my actual take, but too many people on this site cheer when it's masked "protesters" robbing businesses but wag their finger at this? I mean, you never see a post titled "THE RIOTER PROBLEM".

Choose a moral standing that isn't tied to political football.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 7 points 8 hours ago

too many people on this site cheer when it’s masked “protesters” robbing businesses

Conservatives: "Y'all are cheering the rioters and looters. We'll never support that."

Progressive: waves a picture of a cop smashing a window, burning a car, and shooting a passerby without so much as a warning

Conservative: "How dare you?! HOW DARE YOU!! You just hate the police and want the looters to win!!! I hope the police arrest you and send you to a death camp!!!"

Liberal: "Okay, everyone calm down. Mr conservative, I'm sorry the progressive upset you like that. I also don't like rioters and looters. Let's talk about how we can find common ground."

[–] NotBillMurray@lemmy.world 4 points 8 hours ago

"oh my, some people used the chaos of the police breaking up lawful protesters to loot stores, surely the solution is to never protest authoritarian overreach ever again." Go clutch your pearls somewhere else fucko.

[–] throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works 16 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I had to double check if this was the onion, and now I'm still wondering in the back of my mind if this is some meme.

ROFL this simulation is getting so surreal.

(I feel bad for laughing at this fucked up world)

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