this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2025
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[–] rImITywR@lemmy.world 36 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

Ford wants to use cyclists instead. They're not people like dogs are.

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[–] NotSteve_@piefed.ca 22 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

Wait I had no idea this was even allowed to begin with

That led to an article published earlier this month that found the dogs — mostly puppies — were used for tests and killed before their internal organs were removed for further examination.

What the fuck?

[–] BreadOven@lemmy.world 23 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Pretty standard practice for animal research. Mainly mice and rats, but some types of research are better modeled by different animals.

[–] can@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Do you know what the laws are like in other provinces or countries?

[–] Slowy@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

There are national regulations covering animal research under the legislating body, the CCAC.

[–] BreadOven@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago

This. (For people who aren't familiar with them) Regulations are also very strict to ensure the animals are cared for very well and not in pain, etc.

I'm not all for animal testing, but for some things it's still necessary, sadly.

People are researching many alternatives to reduce animal experimentation as much as possible.

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[–] can@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 weeks ago

It's baffling. I want to know each province's laws now.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Animals are property in Canada. We have perhaps the worst animal rights in the western world. You can ship a hundred thinking, feeling creatures in an open grill trailer, 500km in -40C or +40C weather, without water, KNOWING for CERTAIN that most of them will arrive dead, and it is still not a crime. Animals need your attention and protection, because the people you trust won't do it for them. Please go vegan.

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[–] Zephorah@discuss.online 12 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

In regard to some avenues of research that’s too bad. Cats are a point of study for weight gain and loss since they appear to have issues similar to us. Some cats gain and hold weight faster than their mates with similar amounts of food. Some cats compulsively overeat while their mates do not. And so on.

[–] Slowy@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah not to mention animal testing isn’t just for human medical advancements… a lot of animal testing is to develop treatments for animal diseases, test new diet ingredients (after which the animals are adopted out), etc…

[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 weeks ago

Sadly most aren't adopted out as their systems/organs are wrecked so they get euthenized

[–] otter@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

We do test some things on humans for human diseases, and we have strict guidelines on proving safety / efficacy before human tests are approved + how those human tests are conducted. It might be helpful for everyone (humans / animals) to adopt some of those guidelines to animal studies.

Since yes, as you said, studying why cats suffer health issues can improve the lives of lots of animals. The key is doing the studies compassionately

[–] honc@lemmy.ca 7 points 3 weeks ago

There are regulations, but they’re not the same. I think it’s not really appropriate to compare animal testing to human testing for the primary reason that humans have the ability to provide consent.

For animal testing, I really don’t like the current idea being proposed here of basing this on how we feel about cats and dogs vs. mice and other animals. Some other metric like brain size or something about consciousness maybe, but that’s very hard to determine as well.

While I personally think there’s enough benefit to society to do some animal testing, I think a law that said no animal testing would be more ethically consistent than banning only cats and dogs.

The real thing that should be addressed here is better regulation, not arbitrary bans.

[–] HellsBelle@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 weeks ago

It was recently announced that a new study using cats showed they developed dementia the same way humans do.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce93rn5g848o

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[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 12 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

What makes dogs and cats special?

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Nothing, but in the Anglosphere people think there is. It's a perfect culture war to pick in a way, because you can't argue killing dogs is cool, and nuanced points about human attitudes to animals are very easy to shout over.

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[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

as he called the practice “cruel.”

Cool. Then we can agree that fishing, animal-based agriculture, hunting, fur farms, and puppy mills should be banned, too? Right, Doug?

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[–] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Incredibly shortsighted and he’s demonstrating his ignorance of the laws of his own country.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (13 children)

What is the decision framework they used that led to them approving inducing 3hr heart attacks in beagle puppies before killing them?

People here seem happy to have blind faith in the system when it produced results that are objectively horrific. I would genuinely like to understand what the cost/benefit analysis was, what alternatives methods of research were considered, and why they weren't viable.

[–] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 3 weeks ago (22 children)

Animals can only be used in research when there is convincing scientific justification, when expected benefits outweigh potential risks, and when scientific objectives cannot be achieved using non-animal methods. In Canada, there is federal and provincial legislation overseeing the humane treatment of animals.

This type of intervention makes scientific evidence appear secondary to partisan political opinion, weakening the integrity of the research enterprise. Moreover, such actions embolden activist campaigns that often misrepresent the reality of modern animal research and are usually counterproductive. These campaigns frequently ignore or sidestep the strict welfare standards and regulatory requirements that govern research facilities, as well as the medical breakthroughs that benefit both human and animal health. 

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[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Almost certainly they were anesthetised the whole time.

I would genuinely like to understand what the cost/benefit analysis was, what alternatives methods of research were considered, and why they weren’t viable.

In some jurisdictions, I think that's published. Not sure about Ontario.

[–] Sunshine@piefed.ca 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

People want to be contrarian and support animal abuse just because it’s Doug Ford.

[–] ganryuu@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 weeks ago

Cats and dogs, not all animals. Because it's performative.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Like they need an excuse. How do you know when someone abuses animals? Don't worry, they never ever stop telling you.

[–] Sunshine@piefed.ca 2 points 2 weeks ago

They will always have poor excuses.

[–] Binturong@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

This was a particular research group that was flaunting the laws, it's far from the standard. You're embellishing it into some kind of trend when you have no understanding how scientific research is conducted or enforced in this country, it's absolutely not that, and if you want to pearl clutch you should be looking toward Ford's constant attacks on municipalities and environmental standards to get his cut from developer friends, full stop.

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[–] Binturong@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

What we need is auditing and enforcement of our already comprehensive ethical restrictions on scientific research across fields. He's using this one instance of gross negligence and misconduct to attack science in general, rather than do the proper job of enforcing the regulatory apparatus. Why is he doing this? Attention and optics to distract from his massive failures and bad ideas and investments, and also his side dealing which is getting harder and harder to ignore.

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It's because Ontario has among the poorest involvement in biomedical research in Canada despite having 10 universities.

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[–] Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works 6 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

Now do rabbits, mice, bats, primates and everything with a brain actually.

[–] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Most people only view cats and dogs of having any value worth protecting, which is terrible.

Oh, by the way, Doug's government also wants to make it illegal for people to know about the cruelty on factory farms.

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[–] azi@mander.xyz 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

This completely fails to address the actual gaps in scientific animal care legislation, in this case lack of oversight to make sure they actually adhered to the CCAC guidelines and a major lack of transparency. This legislation just sets back science that has good reason to use dogs as model organisms while letting abuse of other animals continue (especially non-government-funded work which has no requirement to follow CCAC rules!)

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[–] CircaV@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Good - do bunnies and monkeys too.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

and cows and pigs and chickens

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