Ask Lemmy

Most people don't just like to sit there and solve puzzles. Math is systems of interleaved puzzles that grow in complexity.

If you enjoy that, you like (pure) math. Most people don't - I don't think "most" would if the education system didn't fail them, the same way that most people don't like sudoku puzzles.

Personally I don't like pure math, I like applied math. Physics. I like seeing the numbers that represent the forces I can see in the real world. I sort of enjoy geometry for the same reason, but less so. I enjoy stats and probability theory to a degree.

But yeah, most people don't enjoy just sitting there and doing puzzles. There's probably a good number of people who would enjoy math if they had a different educational experience, but a ton of people just don't like doing math.

It's really hard to understand some of it. It might've been fun if I had good math instructors for every class at every step of the way from algebra to ordinary differentials. Because so much material builds on what was taught before, it gradually got more and more incomprehensible until I gave up trying to understand it halfway through cal 2 and just memorized the important parts enough to pass. Besides that, I rarely see applications in day to day life past basic algebra. It's not like I'm gonna take careful measurements of how fast my car's going to derive my exact fuel consumption rate. It's easier to just go off the odometer and gas pump readings between fills for instance.

I have excellent long-term memory but have always struggled with keeping strings of numbers in my short-term memory. You can imagine the struggle when trying to solve a function is like trying to make a bed with a slightly too small fitted sheet

Abstract thinking, difficulty seeing the point of doing maths when no teacher explains how it's actually useful. Essentially a teacher failure, as far as I'm concerned. Today I love maths, at least the little I know, but it took a long time getting over the trauma. Fuck you, inept teachers.

I dont understand it. Most I can do is multiply. Can't do long division on paper.

Never got it in school, failed algebra 101 3 times. Only passed by hours of tutoring every day.

I enjoy applied math if its something like calculating tolerances while building an engine, but I cant figure out an algebra equation or do large multiplication stuff at all.

I dont know what multiplication tables are either. I just know how to count up so if I need 8x3 I count 8,16, ah, 24!

Also diagnosed adhd and likely autism doesn't help.

I wish I liked math, because I love computers and mechanical engineering etc but its always held me back. Luckily my job now requires applied thinking not really math so I get to mostly do interesting stuff without complex math.

It's illegal. A tiny amount of it on the head of a pin can kill an elephant.

Why would I like math? It’s just numbers and logic. Why do you think that should be fun?

I disliked math because I would always do poorly on timed math problems in grade school. I couldn’t memorize things and still can’t, but I can work through problems and know how to look up theorems. This continued through grade school until college.

after struggling on calculus for my major, then switching majors and oddly having to take algebra, I found math to be easy to the point that my teacher told me I could skip the final and still ace the class.

I still hate math. I liked that Numbers tv show though.

Someone who used to dislike it in school and university here.

Having to cram a lot of information and formulas, and then reproduce it without error for an exam. None of it made sense, and I wasn't even aware it was possible for it to make sense.

Only after many years did I understand it's all connected, there's a logic to it. It's possible to understand rather than just blindly learn.

Btw the notation really doesn't help.

I'll offer a different perspective. I'm actually really good at math, and I hated it in school because I didn't want to do dozens of homework problems because I already knew how to do it and it was pointless work.

And I didn't, which led to me having to take my tests sitting next to the teacher because she wouldn't believe I could make > 90% on the tests without doing any practice problems.

It’s hard for me to remember all of the different formulas and remembering when to use what.

I have a learning disability which affects my ability to understand math (discalculia). Its really hard to explain how it feels, but any time I do simple math in my head I can't keep track of the numbers and they are start to blink in and out. Its like having short term memory loss for the duration of the equation? Not sure if that makes sense. I can absolutely do the math, but its an uphill battle and I end up having a lot of anxiety because I think people will judge me for how long it takes. I have a lot of trouble with addition, subtraction and multiplication so, really, the very basics.

I think if I didn't have this condition I would probably really enjoy math. I didn't know about this when I was in high school so I don't know if they could have even helped me. I also had a math teacher for a couple of years who would literally throw a chair at the wall if you did something wrong or he thought you were playing stupid. So that certainly did not help the situation.

I don't think this applies to everyone but the major difference I have found between people who enjoy math and those who don't lies primarily in how they do math. People who don't like math usually learn and reproduce the subject by memorizing formulas and using them as tools to solve problems where as people who enjoy mathematics typically seek to understand why those formulas work and often rederive them. For the former who didn't take the time or was not interested in learning the laws that govern math, the subject is a slog of searching your tool box for the correct tool. Sometimes numerous times until you find the one that works, though often not knowing why it worked and the others did not. For the latter it is like a language they have become fluent in. The indentification of which tool they need has become second nature and they will sometimes design tools specific to their needs.

Edit: I saw all this from my experience as a physics major for most of my undergrad. This primarily comes from what I observed in other physics majors so this could be somewhat skewed info. I'm certain there are people who understood math from the roots up and still hated it. Puzzles like that aren't for everyone and I certainly got tired of it by the time I reached up level math.

I enjoy the concepts and structures of mathematics. Fractal geometry, holomorphic dynamics, computational theory, uncertainty principles and all that are fascinating as hell. Discrete systems dancing with continuous integrals at process limits.

I DO NOT ENJOY working with math. Specifically I cant read complex equations. I don't have an attention disorder but I swear the moment I try reading anything that looks like this I get overloaded and nope out. If it aint highschool algebra with PEMDAS I cant do it. If you put a bullet to my head and pinned my survival on properly solving a quadratic equation I'd just tell you to shoot me.

The concepts are cool once you can get past the notation to understand the ontology of whats trying to be conveyed. The actual expanded out notations and trying to do work with them is a fuckin nightmare.

Also since im ranting can I just say, across STEM the biggest problem is the naming convention. Math and science would be at least 60% more accessable if we went back and renamed all theorems, hypothesis, proofs, to be what they are about instead of just shouting out the guy who discovered it. "eulers identity" doesnt mean a fucking thing. Neither does scrodingers equations or the riemann hypothesis or turing machines. THESE ARE NOT ACCESSABLE NAMES THEY CONVEY NOTHING INTRINSICALLY BESIDES SOME DEAD GUYS LAST NAME. GET SOME PROGRAMMERS WHO KNOW HOW TO ACTUALLY DECLARE HUMAN READABLE STRINGS FOR YOUR FUCKING ABSTRACTION OBJECTS.

The question is not aimed at me because I do like math (I have a degree in it), but I did want to comment on a possible reason.

One thing I heard in my math classes (shared with math education students) is that children are introduced to math by primary school teachers who are disproportionately skilled in language and arts rather than math and science. They impart their dislike of mathematics to their students.

I really enjoy what math does. When it applies to what I’m doing, I don’t mind even learning a new method. What killed me in school was math for math’s sake. They never explained where one might use the math. Trig was my favorite because almost every problem has a real-world use case that’s immediately apparent.

I had to take algebra 1 twice in highschool. The fist time I took a college level course, and failed, but passed my second year in the gen course. I then failed algebra 2 miserably, though I will say that year was wild for me, and I didn't really have fucks for math class. I half assed it and was not surprised I failed. You can't half ass math class.

For me, was that if I missed one lesson, it began this giant snowball effect where I couldn't catch up, so in case of my first year algebra, I gave up and failed. It's the only class I ever failed.

The class moved really fast, and I have adhd (unknown to me then). I could thrive in English, History ect because the lessons are structured differently. Math, you dont viciously pay attention, or need more time, I couldn't keep up with its pacing in highschool. Once imaginary numbers were introduced, I just, yeah.

Probably all about the teaching. I understood maths up until we hit differential calculus. Then I didn’t understand what we were doing to numbers or why. And my teacher was incapable of explaining it.

This comes off like a person who has no empathy, or who assumes everyone else thinks like they do. When I was in college, I tutored math to middle school kids, and I can say with certainty that some people's brains take to it more naturally than others. You can be very smart and still struggle with math.

And putting that aside, "enjoyment" is inherently subjective. It's like saying most people would enjoy liver and onions if they had it cooked right. No, some people will and some people won't. It's okay - people are a diverse lot and it's fine if some people don't like what you like.

I find it hard to keep numbers in mind, and memorizing huge lists of numbers doesn't work well for me. I need a purpose, a story, a reason behind the numbers. I'm the weirdo who loves story problems.

I don't like busywork, running meaningless numbers for the sake of doing it is dull to me.

Because the mathematics literature fucking sucks.

It is written by math nerds for math nerds. Show me all the fucking proof, you just spent 10 pages talking about anything and everything but you can't expand on how your formula has been transformed because of whatever theorem.

How many god damn time have I read something akin to "the proof is left to the reader. The resulting formula is [something entirely new]."

Like fuck you, show me how it's done.

I'm good at math, but I dislike it for the same reason I dislike cutting the grass: it's work and my ADHD brain doesn't get reward dopamine for accomplishing work.

I dont have issues with math, its helpful for [gestures broadly to everything].

You are right, how it was taught in schools (US) is a miserable failure. A focus on practical applications so the people can do their taxes and budgeting, understand probability and how statistics are used in reporting (and how they are misused), and spending more time on the metric system would go a long way.

Some people don’t jibe with certain ways of thinking. End of.

I have a bit of dyslexia/dyscalculia so writing numbers from step to step often results in errors. I also had a bad teacher in 6th and 7th grade so I ended up with a lot of stress/shame which means I have a pretty significant gap in my understanding of concepts that has carried through every step of math since then.

the education system failed them, teaching in a way that’s not enjoyable.

Yeah, pretty much. I had to learn a ton of math, where I never got explained what it could be used for. And when it can be applied in an obvious way, namely physics, most of the complexity lays in memorizing a ton of one-letter-abbreviations and formulas, which feels pointless, too.

I'm a programmer now. That was always easy to me, because the best way to learn that is by gradually solving harder puzzles. You don't just sit in a classroom and get told all the solutions to all the puzzles...

Shit teacher. I had a good teacher one year and it turned out I wasn't actually bad at maths.

Generally I like to ask a lot of questions in order to fully understand concepts. Additionaly maths are unintuitive to me. So, for me class moved to fast, I didn't dare to ask questions, because my classmates would assume you were dumb if you did, and my parent insulting me for my lack of understanding built resentment and the believe that maths simply aren't for me.

I read an article recently that explains that this believe further perpetuates the lack of understanding and that it's basically a downwards spiral. And it made sense to me. Not just in respect to maths, but school overall. I always assumed I was an idiot because my grades, my classmates, teachers, friends and parents suggested or deepened that believe. Now I am studying a field I am interested in and thrive, to the point that one teacher actually complimented my intelligence. and then everyone got up and applauded

So yeah, I agree. Given a relaxed environment to learn maths, I can absolutely see myself enjoying it. Even if it's just the teachers fascination rubbing off on me.

fanbase is cringe

I like math just fine up until trigonometry and at that point my brain just can't hold onto it. Failed college calculus three times. There's something about the formulas and rules and applications that isn't intuitive for me at that level. I'm much better at the Earth Sciences and had no problems with chemistry.

"Liking" math isn't really accurate either. I don't care about math, I care about things that require math. Geometry and algebra are useful in a ton of other disciplines and activities. Playing with numbers doesn't make me feel smart or accomplished the way a puzzle does.

I'm good at math but I'm slow at it. I would need my own time to solve a problem. But school always needed it done in a very short amount of time.

I think a lot of it comes down to how people were taught math.

In my generation, it was almost all rote memorization. You memorize times tables. You memorize the steps to do long division. You memorize specific formulas. And then you have to draft it all into proofs to explain why things work, but you were never really taught why things work in the first place. The answer was always "It just does."

Rather than rote memorization, a better use of time for younger students is to focus more on the logic of math, to really get that "why" component before asking them to complete dozens of repetitive problems for homework.

Other parts of it might also just come down to entertainment value, to be honest. Here's where my perspective veers further into anecdote, but maybe it rings true for others, I don't know.

Learning about aphantasia was a new one for me. I don't have it, but I am acquainted with two people who do, and both of those people did well at math in school but hated history and literature. On the other hand, those were my favorite subjects, because being able to immerse myself in a story or put myself in a certain time and place made those subjects more bearable, sometimes fun.

It occurred to me that the way they felt reading books was probably a lot like how I felt doing math: just a lot of reading information on a page and memorizing important details to regurgitate later for some assessment or another. But for them, the logic of math probably made that subject easier to engage with than something as vague as an author's intent.

I like algebra, it's logical and understandable for me. But calculus just falls out of my head the minute I take my eyes off of it.

I am an accountant, I love numbers and number trivia, little puzzles.

But math math, like beyond algebra? Not as much.

And early math, like arithmetic, was poisoned by bad teachers and bad teaching methods. I didn't like it before algebra, it was boring.

because it's so easy to get it wrong and very hard to get it right. there is NO room for error like there is in languages or social studies. If i make a typo or a grammatical mistake in an essay it's not the end of the world... in math it completely destroys you.

and it gets worse as it gets more advanced. my calc 3 + 4 bombed because I make a few simple mistakes here and there and it destroyed my entire exam. It sucked balls to work so hard only to end those classes with a C average because no matter how hard i studied i could make a simple error on the exam and derail my entire problem set.

most people do not have the capacity for detail that higher mathematics requires beyond arithmetic and basic algebra... and that's OK. I am not sure why calculus is required of high school students who aren't going into sciences either. A lot of people lose math in algebra 2 or pre calc and for good reason and I'm not sure they should be forced to take it.

I think USA in particular has horrible approach to education in general, and sciences and math especially because it forces so many people who dont' want to learn that stuff and are not good at learning it... to learn it and then it tells them they are stupid for not being good at it. And on the flips side... for people who are good at it it's seen as some inherent genetic trait, when it isn't.

programming is similar. i gave up on it after 3 courses when i realized i would waste hours of time only to later realize I had put a : instead of a ; and it had derailed the entire program.

conceptually i never struggled with math or programming. but i also have horrible 'innate' grammar/language as well from being born into a poor family. but making grammar errors on my papers never sunk my grades in college the way math errors did.

I was told that mathematics was a language to describe world, but I was virtually never able to make the connection between what I was taught and real world applications, so it all seemed pointless, and I'm really bad at remembering things I don't understand and have a use for.

I hated math until about a year after I got into the trucking industry and realized I could use the math I had learned in school to make my job easier. Over time, I stopped needing the math and was able to just eyeball it, but it really helped for the first few years.