this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2025
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Under the order, private businesses can choose to display signage indicating that ICE cannot enter without a warrant—thereby designating “their property as part of a city-wide network of community spaces that stand together in affirming the safety, dignity, and belonging of all of our residents,” the mayor said.

Johnson touted the order for building “a broad civic shield that limits the reach of harmful enforcement practices. It strengthens neighborhood solidarity and it reaffirms Chicago’s role as a welcoming city.”

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[–] kaidenshi@lemmy.world 385 points 21 hours ago (5 children)

A government that detains and assaults its own citizens without justification or warrant is no longer a legitimate government and must be dismantled and replaced with a government that serves the will of its citizens.

[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 63 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

The will of citizens comes second to the rights of all people. It wouldn't matter if 90% of the country wanted this. It would still be an unconstitutional infringement of rights.

[–] MonkeMischief@lemmy.today 44 points 19 hours ago

100%. The whole point of the document was to put guardrails to override the "3 wolves and a sheep deciding on dinner" scenario.

[–] cadekat@pawb.social 9 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (3 children)

Laws/rights are just thoughts and words. If 90% of the population wants something—barring some extreme use of force—they're going to get their way.

Simply declaring something unconstitutional or illegal is a paper shield.

That's not to say that there isn't value in codifying these things. It helps maintain long term positions/policies when the government swings across the centrepoint, but they only work because the majority of the population agrees with them.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 hours ago

~90% of Americans wanted universal background checks after Sandy Hook. That didn't happen.

[–] Bluewing@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

Law and rights are only valid if you can enforce them by force of arms. In the end, might does make right and the biggest gun wins.

[–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 8 points 17 hours ago

Most specifically, it's to provide a framework so that small changes are orderly and big changes deliberate.
Laws provide a framework that tries to resist change to the maximum degree possible, with the benefit that it's generally agreeable enough to enough people that it's preferable to the danger and force involved in not having them.

[–] wheezy@lemmy.ml 80 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

Waiting for the first politician with power of a police department to say this. The police will likely turn on that person. But it needs to be done. States/Cities need to defend their citizens. Or at the very least show how the existing systems have failed and fallen fully to fascism.

[–] troglodytis@lemmy.world 28 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

It seems ICE tear gassed some Chicago cops. Good timing, Mayor

[–] wheezy@lemmy.ml 8 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Link? On purpose or out of incompetence? The later is just as likely lol.

Edit: Read that in reverse thinking the cops tear gassed ICE. I know what incident you're referring to now.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 18 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

replaced with a government that serves the will of its citizens.

What are we going to do about the 20 to 40 percent of people who support ICE and other horrors?

edit for clarity: replace "this" with concrete

[–] DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 11 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

Realisticaly, unless we are doing forced deportations or removing their voting rights, they are unfortunately gonna still have a voice in the process, but its society's job to educate the next generation to make sure they don't become those idiots. As long as the idiot's party never attain a majority, or try to overthrow the democratic process, its just a permanent minority that is loud as fuck, but has no teeth. There's always gonna be those types of regressive people, even in the best fuctioning democracy.

[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 10 points 20 hours ago (5 children)

shows up to that movement with pitchforks

While we're on the subject, how DID pitchforks become the universal symbol of rioting and revolt? As a weapon, I mean it's decent I guess. You could certainly kill someone with it for sure, but it's not some ultimate weapon. A chainsaw certainly has more raw terror inducing imagery. You see someone with a pitchfork in a 1-1 setting, and you could fight them off. You could grab the pitchfork as it's being used against you and have a chance to fight back.

But a chainsaw? How do you fight a guy with a chainsaw??? Or a gun???

I guess what I'm saying is, if we happen to pass a hardware store along our march of revolution, could we pop in for a sec, so I can buy a chainsaw???

[–] Rcklsabndn@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 hours ago

Nunchucks were originally used to thresh grain before they became a peasant weapon.

[–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 53 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Because when the peasants would revolt, they'd grab the closest thing to a weapon they owned. This imagery predates the chainsaw...

[–] SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz 34 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

You also want a weapon you're familiar with and that you can control. In medieval farming communities, chances are everyone's used a pitchfork. Axe less so.

Pitchforks also work better as infantry; they're kind of a mini pike so they're useful in a mass and against horses. Swing an axe in a mob and it'll hit your neighbour.

[–] Kirp123@lemmy.world 12 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

They were plenty familiar with axes too. Medieval peasants would have to chop wood pretty much daily as fuel for cooking and heating. Also most medieval pitchforks were made from wood since that would be way cheaper, while axes were metal.

But yeah in case of revolt, unless it was a very impromptu affair, they would usually have blacksmiths which could modify their tools to make better weapons.

[–] Xaphanos@lemmy.world 3 points 19 hours ago

Bill hooks were also common agricultural tools that adapt well to warfare.

[–] cygnus@lemmy.ca 8 points 20 hours ago

It was also common to quickly forge rudimentary pollaxes (halberds, etc.) because they handled intuitively enough to people used to farm implements.

[–] fartographer@lemmy.world 18 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (2 children)

Chainsaws:

  • Tripping while carrying a pitchfork is less likely to result in a fatality than a chainsaw
  • Chainsaws rely on external power sources before they become heavy abrasive clubs
  • Reinforcements won't hear you engaging your pitchfork from a block away
  • A pitchfork is lighter and longer, making it easier to wield and have a potential for higher force with lower torque
  • Chainsaws don't like being used on fluid-filled fleshy bits, which can result in a tangled nightmare bogging down your weapon while you try using the "stuck shopping cart" maneuver on something noncompliant and screaming
  • Pitchforks can be quickly shared between targets. Chainsaws quickly share bits of targets between you and anyone nearby

Guns:

  • Requires training
  • See issue about external power sources
  • See noise issue
  • Friendly fire

You could grab the pitchfork as it's being used against you and have a chance to fight back.

Push harder

  • ❌ Pitchfork: Long, unbalanced weight, gets stuck when embedded in a solid medium
  • ✅ Softball bat: Less cumbersome, well balanced, doesn't get stuck in squishy
  • Miracle Blade^®️^: Abuse as desired and Chef Tony will hand-deliver you free replacements, CHEESE CHEESE
[–] Th3D3k0y@lemmy.world 5 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

Spears, and (pun) by extension Pitchforks, being long is not a draw back. It is a stabbing weapon you could take out someone with a baseball bat before they even get in reach to be a risk.

[–] fartographer@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

There's only one real way for us to be sure.
-Grabs a bat menacingly and takes a practice swing that connects with my own one knee-

[–] krooklochurm@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

The police use Roman legionary techniques to force protestors back.

If you take the mindset that you're preparing for a nonlethal war and prepare beforehand by bringing tasers and attaching them to very long wooden sticks, or topping the stick with pins that may get stuck in skin but will break when stuck in skin, or even just use the very long sticks, all you need to do is find enough people to drill in classical battle formations for a while. I think the phalanx did good against a Roman shield wall if it didn't have to maneuver much, which is perfect for city steeets.

Hell, you could go the whole nonlethal bullets route with 3d print guns, but I think firing weapons may result in very much and very lethal escalation, so while I wouldn't recommend it I don't see why 3d printed guns couldn't be used in a staggered fire formation like they used in the 1800s, except you'd just keep preloaded single use pistols in the back pre-loaded with nonlethal rounds. It would be inaccurate as all fuck but that's the beauty of infantry formations in the 1800: the guns were inaccurate as fuck. At least in the beginning.

If they're safe enough to use against protestors then the police shouldn't have a problem, right?

[–] ronl2k@lemmy.world 3 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Spears (pointy sticks) are the oldest weapon. They might have been created by non-humans. They helped us come down from the trees and vanquish large prey with teamwork.

[–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 3 points 15 hours ago

Eh, would not the club be the first weapon? Followed closely by our evolutionary omgwtfbbqhax: the accurate and powerfully thrown rock?

[–] Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 3 points 17 hours ago

Miracle Blade!! And if by some chance the rebellion is ruthlessly put down with military force, "it's the last knife you'll ever need!"

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

I'm pretty sure it's an old trope from early horror films. The villagers would arrive with torches and pitchforks to drive out the monster. This clip from Frankenstein (1931) actually has a mob with torches and clubs, but a similar clip from Bride of Frankenstein (1935) shows a mob with seemingly all kinds of tools including pitchforks and a pickaxe. (I can't find a full clip from Bride of Frankenstein, just this quick shot in the trailer.)

A similar mob appears at the end of The Adventures of Hucklberry Finn (1939), coming for Jim.

TV Tropes has a whole section on this trope.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 hours ago

TV Tropes

Must. Not. Click.

[–] TheMadCodger@piefed.social 5 points 20 hours ago

Peasant farmers revolting against the monster being created in the nearby castle of the mad doctor 🤷🏼‍♂️

[–] sik0fewl@lemmy.ca 1 points 19 hours ago

I'm sorry, but lots of governments do that.