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submitted 4 months ago by gedaliyah@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

The Oregon case decided Friday is the most significant to come before the high court in decades on the issue and comes as a rising number of people in the U.S. are without a permanent place to live.

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[-] Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world 198 points 4 months ago

In true American fashion dating all the way back to its founding, you only matter if you own property.

[-] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago

Seems that way. Empowering local governments to determine legality will inevitably allow NIMBY to criminalize homelessness across the nation, with each city pointing fingers as the next.

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[-] treefrog@lemm.ee 155 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Class warfare scorecard.

Having more homes than you need even ones you never sleep in, legal.

Having zero homes and having to sleep on the streets, illegal.

[-] Fredselfish@lemmy.world 26 points 4 months ago

What was their reason for this decision? Did they even give one. It's time we remove the Supreme Court from office and put them in the street.

[-] FireTower@lemmy.world 30 points 4 months ago

They post all their reasonings for every opinion on supremecourt.gov

In this case the tldr is the 8th amendment is concerned with the method or kind of punishment. And here it's a limited fine for 1st time offenders, a court order prohibiting camping in parks, then to a max of 30 days in jail for people who violate that order.

Here's the link to the full text: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-175_19m2.pdf

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 17 points 4 months ago

That sounds reasonable until you remember that debtors prison is back, most states make people pay for their incarceration, and semi regular arrests are going to make sure you can't keep a job to pay that "obligation".

This is a backdoor into giving more people to the prison industry.

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[-] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 4 months ago

I'm certain someone offered them a gratuity

[-] Zombiepirate@lemm.ee 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The real reason is that conservative ideology dictates that society will have winners and losers who end up in the correct spot in the heirarchy if society doesn't interfere with the natural sorting.

So it follows that homeless people don't deserve a "handout" or a leg-up just because they squandered their opportunities.

Leftists think that an ideology follows from a moral interrogation of the world as it should be, whereas reactionaries think the highest good is done by ensuring that people are in their correct spot in the heirarchy in relation to others; since some people are inevitably going to be homeless, there isn't much to be done about it and the leftists complaining about it are just virtue signaling to get votes.

Their justification is irrelevant once you realize the actual ideological reasoning.

Edit: I'm confused by the downvotes. Anyone want to tell me how I'm wrong? This isn't my ideology, but I think it's useful to understand your opposition on more than a cartoon-villain level, especially since they are so effective at selling their ideas to low-information voters.

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[-] experbia@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

What was their reason for this decision?

Officially? Something mundane, I'm sure. Unofficially and actually? The "labor shortage" we have (which is actually people being reasonably unwilling to work abusive body-destroying soul-crushing senselessly-cruel jobs for less than poverty-level wages) is causing economic damage that's visible in their portfolios, and a new massive infusion of slave labor (because prisoners can legally be used as slaves) that have no legal means to resist abuse and exploitation would fix that situation right up.

Anyone who can't keep up with the numerous corporate money vacuums in their lives (rent, rent increases, bills, bill increases, taxes, more taxes, more bill increases, grocery cost increases, more utility increases, more more more) will become homeless, and the homeless will serve as our new pool of slave labor for dirt cheap. Keep up, hustle harder, pay more, pay faster, or be put in chains and tortured in solitary confinement with moldy nutriloaf until you agree to work to death for nothing.

This conservative wet dream is coming unless we collectively pull our heads out of our asses.

[-] Snapz@lemmy.world 94 points 4 months ago

"That includes California, which is home to one-third of the country’s homeless population."

Why do these statements never follow immediately stating that California is also 10% of the ENTIRE country's population and it's where all of the livable weather is if you have no option but to sleep outside. Of course a lot of them are in California. We need a new deal.

[-] Cornpop@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago

Eh, it’s not just the weather. It’s cities in general. Look at Philly. Winter sucks there but still tons of homeless.

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago

California, outside be mountains, doesn’t really get winters. It’s an attractive place and people will do train hopping to get there.

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[-] SonicDeathTaco@lemm.ee 68 points 4 months ago

In case you ever need led hardproof that America is not a Christian Nation.

[-] cmbabul@lemmy.world 21 points 4 months ago

Feels pretty spot on for the Christians in the church I went to as a child

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[-] JimmyBigSausage@lemm.ee 65 points 4 months ago

Trying to decide if the war is on homelessness or on the homeless. 🤔

[-] CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world 38 points 4 months ago

Why decide when you can just make it illegal to be homeless?

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 30 points 4 months ago

If we make it illegal to be homeless, everyone will have a home! It's brilliant!

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[-] bizarroland@fedia.io 55 points 4 months ago

Sounds like the solution is for the homeless people to protest by refusing to sleep in shelters, forcing the police to arrest them all, overcrowding the jails and clogging the court system until the entire system grinds to a standstill.

So what do I know, I haven't been homeless in 15 years

[-] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

Sounds like this will inevitably happen anyway. It's not like they are bussing homeless people to Colorado are they?

No actually, I am asking are they doing that, because I can see them doing that.

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[-] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 13 points 4 months ago

Jail = free labour

Shelter = help

[-] FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

Jail = makes $$$

Help = costs $

The math is clear.

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[-] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 47 points 4 months ago

Well now this really makes for a trio of facts that paint a horrifying picture:

  • Private, for profit prisons exist
  • Prison slave labour is legal
  • Homelessness can now be made illegal

Guess I should buy some stocks in companies that use prison labour.

[-] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 26 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

https://marketrealist.com/p/companies-that-use-prison-labor/#what-are-some-companies-that-use-prison-labor

  • Verizon uses inmates to provide telecommunication services.
  • Fidelity Investments uses some held assets to fund the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), an organization that promotes inmate work.
  • Kmart and JCPenney use inmate labor in Tennessee to make denim products.
  • Walmart uses prison labor to clean barcodes so products can be resold.
  • Some cheese and fish from Whole Foods comes from prison labor.
  • Circuit boards from IBM come from Texas prisoners.
  • Wendy's and McDonald's use prison labor to process beef for their food products.
  • Amazon uses BOP labor for cleaning and sorting damaged goods
[-] ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.ml 12 points 4 months ago

Also Idaho potatoes are largely prison labor. McD's and Five Guys buy a lot of them

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[-] smokin_shinobi@lemmy.world 46 points 4 months ago

Forcing people into shelters or jail is super fucked up. If I decide I want to camp out in a tent and remove myself from the capitalist grind I should be able to do it unmolested. These fucking vampires think they own every grain of sand.

[-] kevindqc@lemmy.world 39 points 4 months ago

So, where are they supposed to sleep? In a jail cell?

[-] toomanypancakes@lemmy.world 41 points 4 months ago

Yep! That way they can be used for slave labor for the owner class.

[-] snooggums@midwest.social 18 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

At a far higher rate than actually employing them at the median income would be as well.

the median state spent $64,865 per prisoner for the year.

The only reason that companies want prison labor is because it is cheap for them since the taxpayers are subsidizing the labor costs.

Overall it would be cheaper for states to just pay the homeless the median income than to incarcerate them. A lower rate that could be described as a basic income that is implemented universally would go pretty far in both increasing the opportunities for the homeless to afford housing and reduce the chance of people from becoming homeless.

[-] gedaliyah@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago

See, this is the most frustrating part of the American homeless crisis. Literally the cheapest solution is to just build free housing.

The cheapest solution is to just fix the problem, but instead we choose to do more expensive things that don't do anything to address the issue, but may possibly make it temporarily someone else's problem.

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[-] treefrog@lemm.ee 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

As well as to extract tax money from the working class. As it makes more economic sense to house and rehabilitate a person then it does to put them in jail. But the jail tends to have more kickbacks for the owner class.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 13 points 4 months ago

Yes, and without what meager belongings they had prior to arrest. Any changes of clothes, tent, coats, bicycle, all gone.

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 35 points 4 months ago

I'm going to misuse a couple of lines from Star Trek: The Next Generation, but I still think they work. Just imagine Q is all homeless people, and not evil, and Worf is SCOTUS:

Q: What do I have to do to convince you that I'm human?

Worf: Die.

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[-] sunzu@kbin.run 33 points 4 months ago

How long until we get "government ran camps" to help us "solve" the homeless?

When will gen pop say it is enough ?

Asking for friend... History ain't looking good folks.

[-] Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world 22 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Sometime between now and September, obviously.

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[-] nulluser@programming.dev 31 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

For communities that do this, the goal is to...

A) Drive out the homeless so they go to other, more charitable communities, and become someone else's problem, and then...

B) Point out the higher rate of homelessness (and higher taxes necessary to deal with it) in those other communities and say, "Look how awful those communities are!"

[-] Cosmonauticus@lemmy.world 20 points 4 months ago

Or fuel the prison industrial complex sustaining a constant supply of slave labor and state funding for private prisons

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[-] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 30 points 4 months ago

I was hoping the ruling was narrow and that nuance would make available solutions to move forward, but no. This is a broad decision that allows criminalizing using a pillow in public (that is part of the law in Grants Pass, which was ruled as acceptable). Justice Sotomayor said it correctly: sleeping is a biological necessity. If you don't have a place to sleep, you have to choose between not living and going to jail.

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[-] n2burns@lemmy.ca 26 points 4 months ago

This is really interesting in contrast to where I live in Ontario, Canada. A municipality wanted an injunction to make it crystal clear they could evict a homeless encampment on municipal property. Instead, they got a judgement that doing so would violate those people's Charter rights. This ruling means basically every municipality in the province now legally has to do something about the homelessness crisis.

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[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 24 points 4 months ago

Oh lord, this is the worst news to come from this week.

If sleeping anywhere for someone without a permanent place to live is allowed to be made illegal, we should have rotating shifts to keep the Court majority awake in their homes so that they will have to flee to Harlan Crow's yacht.

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[-] homura1650@lemm.ee 21 points 4 months ago

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.

Overall, the dissent is good. But it makes 1 fundamental mistake of constitutional analysis:

The Constitution cannot be evaded by such formalistic distinctions

[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 20 points 4 months ago

As I recall, Gavin Newsom has basically been pushing to look at available shelter space, and clear portions of encampments based on that available space. Problem has been, legally, CA couldn’t clear encampments unless it could demonstrate that it had beds for everyone. As a result, CA has a lot of unclaimed shelter beds. Some counties don’t have enough for everyone, but they do have enough to start moving large portions of people inside.

That said, the conversations around this seem to miss one of the fundamental reasons why people are not excited take a shelter bed. Many shelters have been dirty, hostile, or down right unsafe. People have felt safer in tent communities where they could know and chose their neighbors.

I’m of two minds on this. The all or nothing rule on shelter beds was weird, but shelters need to be safe, help people get care, let people keep belongings, and not kick people out every morning at the crack of dawn.

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[-] LordCrom@lemmy.world 17 points 4 months ago

It's not as if these folks can just go off into the woods and build a cabin. There's no where to go that isn't owned or protected. You gotta sleep somewhere, it's not a choice, people need to sleep.

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[-] samus12345@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago

In Star Trek, there were Sanctuary Districts to herd all the undesirables to in the 2020s.

In reality, we can't even be bothered to do that.

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[-] mp3@lemmy.ca 15 points 4 months ago

Talk about kicking someone when already down..

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

Time to camp on SCOTUS lawns.

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this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2024
624 points (99.7% liked)

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