Ask Lemmy

We took the first 10 months together and then I took an additional 8 months while she got back to work.

Literally zero regret. There's so many small moments you'll miss not being around. No amount of money can bring that back. Now that I'm working full time, it fucking hurts just seeing the kid basically just for dinner and bedtime during the week.

Congrats on the kid! You sound like you'll be a much better dad than your coworkers.

I was so mad that I only had 1 week of PTO to take care of my wife and son after the rough birth. Thankfully some friends pulled us into their place to help take care of my wife while I had to work, otherwise she would have had to get grippy socks....

I fucking hate this country.

almost bragging how little time they took after their kids were born

I had a coworker bragging about lying to his wife that he couldn't take time off. This is fucked up on so many levels: why even have a kid? Why do you lie to your wife? Why are you telling people you barey know (I had been there for like two weeks) that you lie to your wife? WTF?

I feel like I’m missing something.

Maybe they're insecure? They don't know what to do with the new kid, and instead of figuring it out together with their partner they run back to the things they know and hide behind a fake martyrdom. I wonder how many of them will in a few months or years say that women are "naturals" when it comes to taking care of kids.

Congrats on the kid and on being an actual dad!

I don't think you're missing anything. I think that your co-workers bragging is one of the toxic effects of how we tend to think about productivity nowadays, especially in America. I think that there's a tendency to glorify suffering (i.e. sacrificing time with your family to do so much work that by the time you get home to your family, you're too exhausted to be fully present with them).

I know fathers who effectively didn't have a choice about spending time with their newborns, because of a mixture of social pressures (especially gendered pressure from extended family) and financial pressure (such as not having access to paternity leave), who then go on to brag about how much they worked and sacrificed, framing it as if it's a choice they're glad they made. I think that for some people, this nonsense rhetoric is what they tell themselves to cope with the fact they were effectively coerced into something they regret.

Long story short, you're not missing anything. You are, in some ways though, going against the grain: even in places that have paid paternity leave, that alone isn't enough to change the tide of social attitudes. That change happens because of people like you who go "fuck this nonsense, I'm not making a martyr of myself to support my family when I can do a much better job supporting them if I'm there with them".

Unfortunately, based on reports from friends who are fathers, this is just scratching the surface of people being weird about men who are enthusiastic and engaged fathers. It sounds like you've got your priorities in order though. Your coworkers are very silly, and even if you don't feel it appropriate or necessary to tell them how absurd they are, you should at least internalise the fact that you are the sensible one here. An analogy that comes to mind is how, if your employer matches your 401k contributions, it's a no-brainer to take advantage of what is basically free money. If someone has "spare" salary and asked for financial advice online, one of the first and most basic suggestions is often that if you're not already taking advantage of any 401k match your employer offers, you definitely should be. It's free money! Similarly, taking advantage of the paid paternity leave is a no-brainer. This isn't a challenge run in a video-game, so there aren't any prizes for making things needlessly harder for oneself.

Edit: Also, I bloody hate it when people say shit like this:

"Most men are hard working and want to support their families so they don't take leave".

The subtext they're saying here is "I don't acknowledge parenting (and other caring labour) as being hard work, and I certainly don't acknowledge how critical essential this labour is for the world to function. I assume that this work is primarily for women, because this allows me to ignore it and the people who do it, which allows me to feel more important. The only way I can maintain my self identity as 'hardworking' is if I implicitly demean others' hard work".

It's bullshit, and your instincts are right to flag this shit as weird. Parenting is bloody difficult, and anyone who makes comments like this are actively reinforcing old systems that led to many fathers not being given the opportunity to be active fathers.

Anyway, rant finished. I'll finish this edit with something I forgot to say in my main comment: congratulations, and good luck in the weeks to come. And well done on taking this paternity leave, because that helps to disrupt the existing, outdated systems of traditional family structure that make everyone miserable. The impact of one person's choice is only small, but if enough people opt for their family over slaving over the altar of capitalism, I hope that we can build a world where a father wanting to actively be a father is treated like the normal thing it is.

Lol, here in Norway 2 months ish paternity leave is mandatory

The mom guys back to work for that period, leaving you alone with the kid, but if they breastfeed you kinda have to stop by the office once a day for snacks...

I did that for 6 months, which is pretty much the max. I enjoyed the hell out of it, you connect way more to your kid honestly.

I got 100% of my pay. (Government gets you to a certain level, and then most companies covers the rest)

Good for you! That time with your family is really important.

I'm from the US and I caused quite a stir when I took 4 weeks off; 3 days paternity leave and the rest was accrued vacation. HR was trying to convince me to break it up because "it would set a bad precedent." But my boss was supportive and approved it anyway.

Life at home would have to be pretty bad for me to rather be at work.

You are not missing something, they are.

The first couple of years are the most important for a child's development. The more you can be there for your kid, the better. And sharing the load of child rearing will increase the bond between you and your spouse. It's disgusting to see American men reduce "supporting the family" to just bringing home money. Your family needs so much more than that!

I applaud you for taking paternity leave. Most of the criticism towards you is probably a mixture of ignorance and jealously. Take your 12 weeks and come back with a smile on your face and brag how awesome that time was - because it will be.

For comparison: I live in Austria, childcare leave can last from a year to two years and parents can split it 18mo/6mo for instance. Add to that 8 weeks of mandatory "birth time protection" before and after the predicted birth date where mothers aren't allowed to work by law but receive full salary. I WISH my wife and I could have split our maternity/paternity leave but it didn't work out financially back then.

this is part of your compensation. you pay state taxes for it. And you deserve it. decades of corporate propaganda has made most people believe they don't deserve leave at all. ignore the haters and take your leave.

I heard that early childhood (first weeks, months, maybe years) are vital for development of emotional intelligence. Neglect could lead to life-long struggles. So I'm happy to hear you favor the idea to stay and care. Good for you, you both, and all of us.

Your coworkers desperately need class consciousness, working until your bones give out is not "supporting your family" its being a wage slave.

Those people are jealous fucking idiots. 12 weeks is hardly anything. You get a fucking year for each parent in Norway

When my daughter was born, I was blown away to find that my company offered 16 weeks paternity leave. A couple of weeks before my wife was due, I was talking to a coworker and found that his wife was also pregnant, but he didn't know about our company's parental leave policy. He had only been planning to take a couple of weeks. After we talked I found out he took the whole thing.

That four months was one of the greatest times of my life, getting to know my newborn daughter.

Three years later I was in a different job when my son was born. They offered three days. Six months later I found a new job, and I took an extra month off during the transition, just so I could spend every day with my son.

I don't regret any of that. I can't even imagine what that would feel like. I love my children and love being a dad. This is life. This is all we get.

Your coworkers are stupid, shitty fathers. Go be with your kid.

I also had 12 weeks of paternity, but I split mine up. I took 6 weeks (which I feel like was the minimum I should have) at birth to care for the kids and for mama. I split up the other 6 weeks over 2 weeks breaks at different times. It is so important to have dedicated time to bond and care for your child. My relationship with my daughter is amazing and it started so early because I was able to be there and care for her early on. It's weird that in the past people didn't have the opportunity to be there and bond with their children. Why should work ever be more important than your own blood. "Supporting" your family by working vs taking paternity leave and also spending time with your kid is a no brainer. I think some people just think work is the most important part of their life. Work is what makes you money to live your life. Don't forget to live.

Aside from the obvious fact that you should ne there for your partner and child, paternity leave is both economically sound for your employer and the economy as a whole.

It will mean a healthier child with better relationships to his parents. This will improve his/her performance in school, reduce the likelyhood of problematic behaviour requiring interventions and later the likelyhood of criminal activity.

So your child will likely be a more productive and reliable grown up eventually and you will have less stress as parents, which also improves your productivity.

Honestly, fuck those coworkers. What I will tell you is this: They're only newborns for so long, and after that they're only babies for so long. Those are some of the most precious moments in life. Giving that up to wage slave for a company that at the end of the day doesn't give a shit about you? When given the opportunity to experience something that will probably only happen once or twice in your lifetime? You should 100 percent go for it. The other option is looking back on how you missed out on something you will never get back. I missed out on one kids baby phase pulling 60 hour weeks. Was lucky enough to be around for my second and was able to take paternity leave. Best decision I was given, and hate myself for missing out on my first kid.

It's a psychological defense, "I did this and it was ok and it's the right thing to do, so everyone must do it too". It's like backwards logic, like, I think it's s good idea simply because I was forced to do it and that's the only way it makes the whole thing ok.

Also related: toxic culture of "toughen up".

The brain works in quirky ways. There's real studies that show that if something is higher price people attribute better characteristics to it.

I enjoyed my time with our newborn, but it's no vacation. I took 4.5 months of paternity leave in a row.

Sweden is pretty generous with parental leave. Me and the Mrs get 480 days to share between us. 390 of which are at some 80% of our salary. The other 90 days pay peanuts, but great to have when you need some time off to get started with preschool and stuff. You have 90 days earmarked for yourself that can't be transferred to the other parent.

At 5 days a week those 480 days last two years.

I bet you're an awesome husband and dad. If you can afford it, it's absolutely a no brainer.

My son’s a teenager now, but the three months I spent at home with him and my wife after his birth were some of the most incredibly enlightening, rewarding and exhausting days of my life. I’d encourage every parent to spend as much time with their newborn as possible — if not for yourself and for your child, then for your spouse. All three of you will be learning a whole new way of life, and it’s great that you’ll be able to experience and shape it together.

Paternity leave saved my life when I was a young father with an ill wife. Take as much time as you can.

Also, side note, the year I took off of work to care for them when my sons were small (3 and 5) I look back on as one of the best decisions I ever made. Despite the fact we were flirting with homelessness, the bonding and memories made a huge impact on them, and now that they're adults, we have an amazing relationship that far surpasses the distant bond I have with my own father.

It's valuable time. It's as important as maternity leave. Take it.

It seems pretty normalized and expected in the tech company I’m at. I’ll be taking four months or so in August.

From Portugal, here.

Take that time, enjoy it and cherish it. It's your family and that time will be an ever lasting memory for all of you.

My Colorado Comrades in corporate environments take the time. I've seen a number of guys go out on Paternity since we enacted paid paternity leave in our state. It's legally protected, we fought and voted for it. If your boss doesn't like it they can eat shit and die because it's your right. Your family is more important than some corporate nonsense.

Today I witnessed a group of coworkers almost bragging how little time they took after their kids were born. I've heard stuff like "Most men are hard working and want to support their families so they don't take leave".

Toxic masculinity.

I absolutely love that you're doing this and I think paid leave for this, child and family care up to 30 weeks should be easily doable, as well as quality education and quality affordable health care and quality, affordable food, housing, clothing and utilities. Livable wages too.

Holy cow, that is a strange concept - I was coming back to add some of the hate you’re getting might be from affordability. Any paternity leave you can get in the US is usually vacation and unpaid. No one can afford much of that. That’s amazing that you still get an income to support taking care of your new child

I'm not a father and I never intend to be one, and I think it's great that you're taking paternity leave.

Holy shit, 12 weeks ! I'm from France and paternity leave is notoriously lacking (compared to other forms of welfare that exist alongside it). I feel 12 weeks is generous and fantastic.

I'll never have biological children of my own and I'll never get to use that benefit. From a strictly selfish standpoint, it stings a bit that pretty much all my heterosexual friends and coworkers, male and female, get a minimum of 12 - 36 weeks of paid time off that I'll never get.

Having said that, I'm genuinely happy that they get it, I think it's a shame that 12 weeks per child isn't a minimum standard for paternity & maternity leave. In the professional settings I've worked in that offer paternity leave, I've never experienced a coworker complaining or making fun of a man taking paternity leave, nor have I ever heard of a man NOT taking paternity leave when it's offered.

The places I've worked that offer it also usually offer flexible leave, so it's very common for new dads to take 4 - 6 weeks off at birth, and then work a reduced schedule for the remaining time until they're out of leave, after which they return full time. Even some of the moms are doing that as well, basically maximizing the amount of time that at least one parent is on leave and at home with the newborn.

But, outside of professional settings and particularly within conservative/Republican family and acquaintances, typically lower-to-middle class people, they act like paternity leave is ridiculous. My dad laughed out loud a while back when I mentioned I was taking over a new project because my coworker was about to go on paternity leave "What? Are you serious?" In my opinion, "toxic masculinity" aka stupid, ignorant, and useless concepts of overly rigid gender stereotypes is where this type of opinion is rooted. That and probably a good degree of jealousy.

I was interviewing with my current company while my wife was pregnant and I didn't disclose it to them bc I didn't want it to impact my hireability. My wife was due about a month into my tenure after I got hired. I told my boss after I was hired, and only took maybe a week off. The only reason I took such a short amount of time was I didn't want my boss to think poorly of me so soon into the job and make a good 1st impression. I was sleep deprived the whole time and my performance was definitely impacted.

When my 2nd was born, you best believe I took the full 12 weeks, and every day was worth it. That bonding time is absolutely irreplaceable, and I wish I had it the first go 'round. You only get 1 chance at it. Fuck your coworkers, they're probably shitty parents.

I think a lot of the pushback can be chalked up to jealousy as well. If you are living paycheck to paycheck, then you can’t afford to take a 15% pay cut. Then of course, you taking leave means that they will have added responsibilities until you get back as well.

But it’s your right, if you can afford it then you absolutely should take it if that’s what you want. You can’t get this time back

I did 6 months for each of my kids and it was great.

I'm currently on paternity leave. Took 8 weeks broken into two chunks. 5 weeks when baby was born and 3 when my wife's 12 weeks ended. I couldn't imagine taking a few days and diving back into work. Both my wife and I work demanding jobs - I'm not sure I'd feel the same bond with my son if I didn't have this time... I also wouldn't have the same appreciation for how challenging it can be to be solo with the kiddo. It's pretty much a full time job to feed, change, and tend to the little guy. He's fighting to be a never napper and wakes up after 20-30 mins in his bassinet. Only gets longer naps if on my lap, which pretty much locks me down in whatever chair were in when he falls asleep (I know I can't do contact naps forever and need to get him used to falling asleep on his own).

All that to say... I think all dad's should get paternity leave. 5 weeks is fine. 8 is good. 12 is perfect.