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this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
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Now that's a name I haven't heard in awhile. She probably doesn't have much of any social capital left, but if she wants to spend her last bit on this, I get it.
A lot of people admire her for not hiding what happened at all and being unapologetic about it because it wasn't her fault. She was a young intern and he took advantage of her. Only the asshole Republicans still victim-blame her. Meanwhile, she has shown to be an extremely thoughtful woman who has a lot of very good political points to make and they wouldn't let her make them in Vanity Fair if she didn't have any political capital left.
The only issue I see here is that she's basically preaching to the choir.
She's a woman who pissed of Hillary Clinton by airing dirty laundry...
She threw her entire political future away, because Hillary is incredibly spiteful and for some reason has always held a lot of sway with the DNC.
Voters agree, but for some reason politicians never mentioned it when Dems could have done anything about it...
That's worth a conversation
Hillary has done a lot for the modern Democratic Party.
You know she was one of the first advocates for universal healthcare, right?
The hate for Hillary is the result of a propaganda campaign launched when she was First Lady of Arkansas.
I've never even heard that, which is surprising considering she's ran for president multiple times... Can you provide a link so I can look into that?
Claiming anyone that doesn't like her fell for propaganda doesn't make sense... Pick the best person in the world, someone has a valid reason not to like them.
Clinton has zero charisma and has strong political views that progressives, moderates, and conservatives all hate.
I mean hell, if what you just said about universal healthcare is true, that's enough for lots of Dems and almost all Republicans to not like her...
Unfortunately lots of Dem voters keep electing Dems that don't want to fight for that.
Hillary is abrasive. As you say, zero political charisma. But she is also married to Bill, and he is as smooth a politician as has ever existed. He bleeds charisma. He plays the sexy sax, for goodness sake! The contrast does her no favors. Bill's cheating hurt her politically, as does the fact that they are rarely seen together. It appears that their marriage is loveless and entirely political, which adds to her image as an angry shrew.
And before anyone accuses me of a double-standard, the same would be true for a man. Americans would not elect for President an angry shrew of a man who was publicly cuckolded by his sexy, confident, charismatic wife, either. Obviously, that isn't right or fair, but there you have it. Politics has a certain high school popularity contest flavour to it.
I’d add one thing though. It’s not that Hillary lacks charisma, it’s that hers is of an interpersonal sort. She can negotiate like nobody’s business, and even her enemies speak positively of her as a person if they’ve spent any time dealing with her. But put her in front of a crowd and she’s just terrible at it. She was never going to be president but holy hell would she have made a good president Pro tempore. Heck she’d’ve been great at the job of president she just can’t do the whole getting elected president thing.
And I’d say that dissonance between her charismas really contributes with her ambition to the rumors. Very few people will see her behind closed doors where she shines, they just see someone who struggles to be likable on stage (and yes misogyny and perception play roles here too, but let’s be honest, she’s neither Obama on stage) but then she gets shit done, and makes concessions sure, but that’s part of the job. It’s easy for bad actors to say she’s threatening people instead of just extremely good with a handful of people at a time.
That's a great point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993
It was called Hillarycare by republicans. Pharma and insurance companies lobbied against it and attacked the person in charge… Hillary Clinton.
I highly recommend you watch the documentary on her that’s on Hulu. Even if you ignore what she says, just look at the attacks that were made on her over the decades. You might find a degree of appreciation.
Thanks for the link!
It was exactly what I thought it was, just forcing everyone to be on a plan not a true single payer program.
Also, that link isn't clear on her involvement...
Appparently one of the people involved says Hilary didn't really do anything? She lied and claimed it was her to shield Bill from the political consequences of it failing?
Really, it's difficult to think of any other US politician that has been constantly dragged through the mud for nearly as long as Hillary Clinton. 30+ years of non-stop propaganda... And she still almost beat Trump.
That's a weird thing to brag about considering she helped him win the primary because her team thought he was the easiest R to beat...
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-214428/
She's just always been out of touch with the American voter, and either she had no idea what she was doing, or knew the risk and gambled with the country for personal gain.
Shit like that is why people don't like her. She cares more about personal power than the country.
What personal gain and power? Sounds like you’ve been drinking that right wing kool aid about Hillary being the literal devil
Going down in history forever as the first female US president... Like, you do realize president of the US is a big deal right?
And there's nothing that makes moderate Dems sound more like trumpets than claiming any criticism is "fake news propaganda".
Like, if you can't objectively look at Hilary Clinton and understand some people have valid reasons not to like her....
… So being the right person for a job is a bad thing simply because you’d be the first? Come on.
You haven’t even laid out any valid criticism.
Mate, the first qualification for elected office is getting people to vote for you...
Hillary was so scared of Jeb Bush (a terrible candidate in his own right) that her campaign pumped up lunatics like trump and Ben Carson because they thought she had a chance at beating them.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-214428/
She succeeded at getting trump into the general, but then couldn't even beat him.
So how is she "the right person for the job" when the only chance she had to be president was helping a fucking lunatic make it to the general against her... And then losing to that lunatic
America would have been better off if Hillary had stayed home and we had either Bernie or Jeb Bush as president from 2016-2020 rather than trump.
I don't know why you disagree
What "personal power"?
This woman is literally no longer a person in your eyes. You people have invented this super-villain that just doesn't exist. Come back to reality.
Edit: I'm not even a fan of Hillary Clinton, I've just observed this happen in front of my eyes for decades and it's wild.
I really thought it was obvious, but you're the second to ask...
Being President of the United States of America...
I guess I overestimated people on a politics sub, but I really didn't think I needed elaborate that being a world leader also makes someone personally powerful...
Or that being the first woman to hold that office would make someone remembered for the future of our country. Kids would be learning her name 200 years from now assuming the country still exists. Now at best she'll be a footnote for a decade, likely only mentioned as the person who lost to trump.
I'd feel bad if she also wasn't the main reason Trump was even in the general to begin with
You realize she lost, and will never hold public office again, right?
I'm talking about currently. People acting like she's some kind of puppet master behind the scenes pulling the strings.
Some might call it a... vast right-wing conspiracy.
The propaganda campaign made her seek out Henry Kissinger's endorsement, it's not her fault.
I don't think either party is willing to give up the self-pardon power even if it is discussed. That said, it is not clear that a president actually has that power.
This article presents both arguments- https://www.thoughtco.com/can-a-president-pardon-himself-4147403
If there's one thing voters want out of the Dem party after trump...
It's for them to codify shit instead of relying on the honor and good faith of the Republican party.
But like you said, the Dem party doesn't want to give that up, because some day they might use it. They're more worried about protecting themselves as individuals than protecting the country.
Which is one of the many reasons 1/3 of the country regularly doesn't vote.
Exactly. Untested edge cases of laws that most legal scholars agree with are useless when fascists WILL push the boundaries of law and with the SCOTUS being bought and paid for by said fascists, it'll probably go their way. Only obvious, iron-clad legislation can help to slow fascism's attempt at subverting democracy.
Sweet, sweet summer child, one "Nope" from the people in factual power and the best legislation can be ignored. Just ask Obama's duly appointed supreme court pick Merrick Garland.
It's "We can't pick a judge in the year right before an election" if it would be a democrat, but "it is imperative that we fill as many vacant seats as possible in this year before the election" when they'll be republicans. The legal basis for that those interpretations? "Because we can, so fuck you."
As soon as they make fox news trumpet it, every law is a legal fringe case that just so happens to have an interpretation that supports their point of view, spearheaded by legal experts like Trump's crack lawyer team.
That wasn't a law, though. it was Congress being obstructionist and not confirming a judge. Much as they are doing now to DoD leadership.
BUT if there was a law on the books that was clearly written, even the current SCOTUS has shown to be hesitant in overturning clear laws that aren't constitutionally dubious. We are still at the point in a fascist takeover where the fascists are trying to subvert the government. If we don't clamp down and make that difficult, we'll get to the takeover part and we'll never recover.
As with all our political conversations, we’ll only open an honest discourse a minimum of 50-70 years after it happened.
Any source showing that Hillary did anything to Monica Lewinsky? Or is this just some conspiracy theory BS that's adjacent to the "Clinton Crime Family" bullshit that makes Hillary out to be like a baby-eating Michael Corleone?
That's a funny way to say "sucking her husband's dick while they were married".
And then Hillary really pissed off the GOP by not giving a fuck about a BJ and standing by her husband.
I didn't realize she had stepped back into the public eye. I'm guessing she got her Vanity Fair position on the strength of her ideas and writing, as opposed to her history, because honestly, the history is ancient at this point.
Not her fault. It was equally her fault unless you think young women are too delicate to make good decisions on their own. Are you suggesting they need chaperones to follow them around to protect their virtue? Are you suggesting they are too weak to control themself around powerfull individuals?
While this was a great failure on the part of Bill Clinton, it was also a failure of her character as well. His greater in that it had implications to a country and it is a shitty thing to do. Her in that it was just a shitty thing to do.
She kept the dress. She knew what she had planned out. Clinton also did a shit thing, but I don't believe her playing the V card at all.
IDK, I always thought it was just stupid of her to come out with that story.
I also don't believe she was pressured by Bill Clinton, but more that she was pressured by a fanatic special examiner, who went everywhere to dig up whatever. No matter how irrelevant and despite it not being illegal. Completely opposite to the Republican examiner Mueller against Trump, who took forever to dig up NOTHING even when you didn't really have to dig. And despite evidence of treason by Michael Flynn, he was pardoned and got away scot free for cooperating!!! Republicans are rotten, and they control just about every level of policing and security in USA.
Nonsense. He was 49 and she was 22. Furthermore, he was the President of the United States. There was a massive power imbalance. She was pressured by him just being in the position he was in. Maybe it shouldn't have been exposed to the public, but he absolutely took advantage of her and she was very brave once it was exposed.
I disagree, she was 22, she knew what she was doing. She was ambitious, and probably hoped for favors.
It's just like the idiotic sentiment that Melania Trump is somehow OK, and was considered somewhat a victim when Trump was president, she knew perfectly well what she was doing, and all evidence shows she's as batshit as her husband.
She handled a bad situation with grace and dignity. Also, it bears repeating that the same people who want to ban books are the ones who are most willing to make sure that blowjobs are mentioned in history books.
I think she has more social capital now than ever before. She’s a well-respected activist working on important issues. Her willingness to speak openly and honestly about her experience, as well as her willingness to joke about it, and frankly to be in the public spotlight at all after what the media did to her, is downright inspiring.
I recommend checking out some interviews she’s done over the last few years. She has a uniquely relatable way of discussing huge societal issues. I’m genuinely impressed any time I hear her talk.
tbf, I do my best to avoid consuming too much domestic US stuff. It's a sanity thing. I'll see her more when she shows up in international outlets.
edit: Or here.
Totally fair. The smoldering dumpster fire is very hard to watch. Actually I’ve walked past many an actual dumpster fire, and they’re much easier to stomach than the current state of things in the US.
She's made good capital selling herself as patient zero for online harassment IMO.
If you hadn't seen John Oliver's interview with her I recommend it
This woman became a white house intern cause in all likelihood she wanted to become a politician, and the Clinton thing just turned her into a late night talkshow joke
She had a brief resurgence around the time of the "me too" stuff, and was vindicated for a lot of the things that happened to her. A lot of people view her (and that overall situation) very differently now given how our culture has changed.
I believe she's an activist of sorts now? I could be misremembering.
Americans are such pearl clutching hypocrites. They hate women for having any sexuality, unless it means they get to fuck her. She gave Clinton a bj, and somehow that makes her a terrible person. Who would ever want a woman to give them a bj? Shes sick in the head, I tell you!
... I haven't really seen anybody in here saying anything bad about her. What I said was not any kind of insult, having little social capital simply implies she has not been heard from much. Which she is free to do if she wishes, we value our private lives, family, things like that. Not everybody wants to be famous.